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	<title>Comments on: Did the Pelham Library Violate NY Law?</title>
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	<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/</link>
	<description>Whatever It Is, I&#039;m Against It</description>
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		<title>By: better 2b fired</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/comment-page-1/#comment-4107</link>
		<dc:creator>better 2b fired</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 19:20:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/#comment-4107</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I worked at the Webtamer&#039;s almater library for about 3 years.  Although I cannot speak for the current practices of this library, I can say that this library has, apparently, silently condoned a relationship with the local police department that consisted of providing the identity of patrons who checked out items that were found during the course of police investigations, without the provision of subpoenaes and/or the required warrants per Indiana statute and library policy.  It was kind of a &quot;you scratch our back, we&#039;ll scratch yours&quot; situation where the library depended on prompt reactions from the local PD at times since it is an urban downtown library.  Coincidentally, within a week of my questioning such an incident, I was terminated from the library--of course the library maintains this was totally unrelated to their reasoning for firing me.  Ultimately, via the unemployment judge, it was decided that there was not just cause for terminating me.  Now, I&#039;m just over halfway through my MLS with a termination under my belt.  Woo Hoo!
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I worked at the Webtamer&#8217;s almater library for about 3 years.  Although I cannot speak for the current practices of this library, I can say that this library has, apparently, silently condoned a relationship with the local police department that consisted of providing the identity of patrons who checked out items that were found during the course of police investigations, without the provision of subpoenaes and/or the required warrants per Indiana statute and library policy.  It was kind of a &#8220;you scratch our back, we&#8217;ll scratch yours&#8221; situation where the library depended on prompt reactions from the local PD at times since it is an urban downtown library.  Coincidentally, within a week of my questioning such an incident, I was terminated from the library&#8211;of course the library maintains this was totally unrelated to their reasoning for firing me.  Ultimately, via the unemployment judge, it was decided that there was not just cause for terminating me.  Now, I&#8217;m just over halfway through my MLS with a termination under my belt.  Woo Hoo!</p>
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		<title>By: Subversives Unite</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/comment-page-1/#comment-4108</link>
		<dc:creator>Subversives Unite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 13:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/#comment-4108</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d hold a Be Subversive! day for the kids down at the library.  We&#039;d look at the Underground Railroad, Prohibition&#039;s Soeakeasy&#039;s... ooo, how about the historical suppression of free speech and how citizens have fought against it?

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d hold a Be Subversive! day for the kids down at the library.  We&#8217;d look at the Underground Railroad, Prohibition&#8217;s Soeakeasy&#8217;s&#8230; ooo, how about the historical suppression of free speech and how citizens have fought against it?</p>
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		<title>By: Fat and Grumpy</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/comment-page-1/#comment-4109</link>
		<dc:creator>Fat and Grumpy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 14:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/#comment-4109</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
May 11, 2009
In response to: Did the Pelham Library Violate NY Law?
Dr. Pepper commented:

So...do public libraries have the Anarchist&#039;s Cookbook? If so, do we get profiled? :p 

Great question.  Years ago, I worked at Waldenbooks, who refused to take orders for the Anarchist&#039;s Cookbook, and at a public library where I ILL&#039;d it a couple of times a year.  Go figure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May 11, 2009<br />
In response to: Did the Pelham Library Violate NY Law?<br />
Dr. Pepper commented:</p>
<p>So&#8230;do public libraries have the Anarchist&#8217;s Cookbook? If so, do we get profiled? :p </p>
<p>Great question.  Years ago, I worked at Waldenbooks, who refused to take orders for the Anarchist&#8217;s Cookbook, and at a public library where I ILL&#8217;d it a couple of times a year.  Go figure.</p>
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		<title>By: Ab</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/comment-page-1/#comment-4110</link>
		<dc:creator>Ab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 07:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/#comment-4110</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
Unfortunately, due to federal patriot act laws which will not expire until December 2009 this information is allowed to be disclosed to a law enforcement agency. If the person who made the call was a citizen then they are allowed to do so, but if it was a librarian then I believe that would be breaking privacy regulations. The ALA is against the patriot act but has no real authority to combat it except with letters and lobbying.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, due to federal patriot act laws which will not expire until December 2009 this information is allowed to be disclosed to a law enforcement agency. If the person who made the call was a citizen then they are allowed to do so, but if it was a librarian then I believe that would be breaking privacy regulations. The ALA is against the patriot act but has no real authority to combat it except with letters and lobbying.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Kat</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/comment-page-1/#comment-4111</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Kat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 19:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/#comment-4111</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;May 12, 2009
In response to: Did the Pelham Library Violate NY Law?
Just a question commented:

...a philosophical one... If you saw a teenager looking at school shootings online and happened to see a printed page that he left on the printer of his online diary saying he plans to shoot people on a certain day, would you call someone or ignore it based on protecting his privacy? I have asked myself this question and find it hard to answer. Perhaps others would have a solid take on this. Thanks!&lt;/i&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
If you are in an academic institution, then under mandatory reporting statues, you HAVE to report it.  But why?  Simply put, you have a hard printout of his personal diary - and that material is not covered under any law, not even the Constitution; you are not even allowed to publish threats or abuse against others, either libelous or slanderous.
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
However, if this student is just using the computer to do research on school shootings, we may not report his activiy under the code of ethics as perscribed to our profession.  If the student is checking out books on the subject of school shootings, we librarians may not even ask Why this student is checking them out, even if we were academic librarians.
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
In short, we may not act until people do something specific that shows they wish to do something that may do real harm to themselves or others - and checking out a libary book or even many library books on the subject or a multitude of subjects does not constitute such proof, especially since we are under oath, contrat and understanding with our patrons that their library records are completely confidential.
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
With the number of people looking for librarian jobs, there is not one good reason to hold one single librarian who is unable to ethically do their job as described by the professional guidelines as perscribed by the ALA.  Ms. Nosy, Ms. Queasy, Ms. Busybody, we have no place for you!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>May 12, 2009<br />
In response to: Did the Pelham Library Violate NY Law?<br />
Just a question commented:</p>
<p>&#8230;a philosophical one&#8230; If you saw a teenager looking at school shootings online and happened to see a printed page that he left on the printer of his online diary saying he plans to shoot people on a certain day, would you call someone or ignore it based on protecting his privacy? I have asked myself this question and find it hard to answer. Perhaps others would have a solid take on this. Thanks!</i></p>
<p>If you are in an academic institution, then under mandatory reporting statues, you HAVE to report it.  But why?  Simply put, you have a hard printout of his personal diary &#8211; and that material is not covered under any law, not even the Constitution; you are not even allowed to publish threats or abuse against others, either libelous or slanderous.</p>
<p>However, if this student is just using the computer to do research on school shootings, we may not report his activiy under the code of ethics as perscribed to our profession.  If the student is checking out books on the subject of school shootings, we librarians may not even ask Why this student is checking them out, even if we were academic librarians.</p>
<p>In short, we may not act until people do something specific that shows they wish to do something that may do real harm to themselves or others &#8211; and checking out a libary book or even many library books on the subject or a multitude of subjects does not constitute such proof, especially since we are under oath, contrat and understanding with our patrons that their library records are completely confidential.</p>
<p>With the number of people looking for librarian jobs, there is not one good reason to hold one single librarian who is unable to ethically do their job as described by the professional guidelines as perscribed by the ALA.  Ms. Nosy, Ms. Queasy, Ms. Busybody, we have no place for you!</p>
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		<title>By: TheCompleatLibrarian</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/comment-page-1/#comment-4112</link>
		<dc:creator>TheCompleatLibrarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 19:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/#comment-4112</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
Mr. Kat commented:

TheCompleatLibrarian commented: Until he is 18 he has no rights. Wait...until he is 18, he can do whatever he wants to. No..No...it is the the Librarian&#039;s fault. No, that&#039;s not right....it is the ambiguous use of language in the laws that have no solid precedent and no true enforcement. Librarians need to quit acting like they are the Lords of their own fiefdoms and actually comply with the laws of the community they are a part of.

Regardless of HIS age, the LIBRARIAN&#039;S age IS old enough to hold her accountable for breaking the law! Furthermore, it is NOT illegal to research concealed weaponry at any age.

There are further a number of communities that need to learn to understand that a number of regional and federal laws apply to them too, even if they don&#039;t believe in those values Locally...

Where IS the ALA on this one???

Wow....if the &quot;No,No&quot; and the &quot;Wait,Wait&quot; did not indicate sarcasm, then you need more exposure to skylarking.  Good grief.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Kat commented:</p>
<p>TheCompleatLibrarian commented: Until he is 18 he has no rights. Wait&#8230;until he is 18, he can do whatever he wants to. No..No&#8230;it is the the Librarian&#8217;s fault. No, that&#8217;s not right&#8230;.it is the ambiguous use of language in the laws that have no solid precedent and no true enforcement. Librarians need to quit acting like they are the Lords of their own fiefdoms and actually comply with the laws of the community they are a part of.</p>
<p>Regardless of HIS age, the LIBRARIAN&#8217;S age IS old enough to hold her accountable for breaking the law! Furthermore, it is NOT illegal to research concealed weaponry at any age.</p>
<p>There are further a number of communities that need to learn to understand that a number of regional and federal laws apply to them too, even if they don&#8217;t believe in those values Locally&#8230;</p>
<p>Where IS the ALA on this one???</p>
<p>Wow&#8230;.if the &#8220;No,No&#8221; and the &#8220;Wait,Wait&#8221; did not indicate sarcasm, then you need more exposure to skylarking.  Good grief.</p>
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		<title>By: law</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/comment-page-1/#comment-4113</link>
		<dc:creator>law</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 13:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/#comment-4113</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How dare he try to educate himself about the laws he has to obey? If you are not a criminal, you shouldn&#039;t have to worry yourself about the rules. /sarcasm

I say the librarian should be fired. Congrats tot he police and anyone else who managed to keep it professional and not overreact.


]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How dare he try to educate himself about the laws he has to obey? If you are not a criminal, you shouldn&#8217;t have to worry yourself about the rules. /sarcasm</p>
<p>I say the librarian should be fired. Congrats tot he police and anyone else who managed to keep it professional and not overreact.</p>
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		<title>By: Techserving You</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/comment-page-1/#comment-4114</link>
		<dc:creator>Techserving You</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 12:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/#comment-4114</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I meant regarding the specific scenario described in the comment above mine, NOT the Pelham scenario.  That person is an idiot, though not a criminal, if he/she violated a civil statute.


]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant regarding the specific scenario described in the comment above mine, NOT the Pelham scenario.  That person is an idiot, though not a criminal, if he/she violated a civil statute.</p>
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		<title>By: Techserving You</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/comment-page-1/#comment-4115</link>
		<dc:creator>Techserving You</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 12:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/#comment-4115</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I haven&#039;t looked at the statute, but I am guessing that it is a civil statute and therefore there is no &#039;prosecution&#039; to be done.

Regarding the very specific scenario described above - yes, I would let someone know although I am not sure that I would identify the patron.  Although, even doctors can legally breach confidentiality when they have information that someone&#039;s actions may harm others or themself.  I really don&#039;t think that librarians need to be held to a higher standard than doctors do.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t looked at the statute, but I am guessing that it is a civil statute and therefore there is no &#8216;prosecution&#8217; to be done.</p>
<p>Regarding the very specific scenario described above &#8211; yes, I would let someone know although I am not sure that I would identify the patron.  Although, even doctors can legally breach confidentiality when they have information that someone&#8217;s actions may harm others or themself.  I really don&#8217;t think that librarians need to be held to a higher standard than doctors do.</p>
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		<title>By: Just a question</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/comment-page-1/#comment-4116</link>
		<dc:creator>Just a question</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 11:26:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/05/11/did-the-pelham-library-violate-ny-law/#comment-4116</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[...a philosophical one...

If you saw a teenager looking at school shootings online and happened to see a printed page that he left on the printer of his online diary saying he plans to shoot people on a certain day, would you call someone or ignore it based on protecting his privacy?  I have asked myself this question and find it hard to answer. Perhaps others would have a solid take on this. Thanks!

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;a philosophical one&#8230;</p>
<p>If you saw a teenager looking at school shootings online and happened to see a printed page that he left on the printer of his online diary saying he plans to shoot people on a certain day, would you call someone or ignore it based on protecting his privacy?  I have asked myself this question and find it hard to answer. Perhaps others would have a solid take on this. Thanks!</p>
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