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	<title>Comments on: The Value of Empty Libraries</title>
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	<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/</link>
	<description>Whatever It Is, I&#039;m Against It</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 00:18:46 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Anonymous Librarian</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-2491</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous Librarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/#comment-2491</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Picard said &quot;The off the cuff analysis seems greatly flawed. I doubt there is a municipal or suburban library in the country that gets 100$ per month per capita or even per household from the persons with in it&#039;s service area. Not even close.&quot;

The analysis is correct - but Picard is correct in that the taxes that go towards funding the public library are a tiny, tiny amount - no where near the $1200 figure (and I think that&#039;s a conservative estimate.)

I also appreciate the comment about libraries being an experience.  We just started showing movies at my library; and an elderly woman commented that she is so glad - the reason is that her husband recently passed away, so she is lonely.  She hates going to the movies alone, so coming to the library is a great, social experience for her.  

My public library serves a relatively small community that is fairly affluent, but our usage is up almost 20% from last year, and 50% from 2 years ago.  Most libraries are experiencing the same thing. 

I appreciate your insurance comparison. Unfortunately, we librarians are not doing a good enough job advertising what we do and reminding the community of our importance.  Our users know it, but it&#039;s the people like the guy in Oak Brook we have to worry about. They&#039;re loud and they get heard.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Picard said &#8220;The off the cuff analysis seems greatly flawed. I doubt there is a municipal or suburban library in the country that gets 100$ per month per capita or even per household from the persons with in it&#8217;s service area. Not even close.&#8221;</p>
<p>The analysis is correct &#8211; but Picard is correct in that the taxes that go towards funding the public library are a tiny, tiny amount &#8211; no where near the $1200 figure (and I think that&#8217;s a conservative estimate.)</p>
<p>I also appreciate the comment about libraries being an experience.  We just started showing movies at my library; and an elderly woman commented that she is so glad &#8211; the reason is that her husband recently passed away, so she is lonely.  She hates going to the movies alone, so coming to the library is a great, social experience for her.  </p>
<p>My public library serves a relatively small community that is fairly affluent, but our usage is up almost 20% from last year, and 50% from 2 years ago.  Most libraries are experiencing the same thing. </p>
<p>I appreciate your insurance comparison. Unfortunately, we librarians are not doing a good enough job advertising what we do and reminding the community of our importance.  Our users know it, but it&#8217;s the people like the guy in Oak Brook we have to worry about. They&#8217;re loud and they get heard.</p>
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		<title>By: Biblio babe</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-2492</link>
		<dc:creator>Biblio babe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 13:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/#comment-2492</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Libraries serve immediate users, but they&#039;re also like insurance policies. They&#039;re insurance against ignorance and boredom. Libraries are valuable even if no one is using them.&quot; 

This is so beautifully said!  Wonderful commentary.  Thanks as always for your insight.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Libraries serve immediate users, but they&#8217;re also like insurance policies. They&#8217;re insurance against ignorance and boredom. Libraries are valuable even if no one is using them.&#8221; </p>
<p>This is so beautifully said!  Wonderful commentary.  Thanks as always for your insight.</p>
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		<title>By: Picard</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-2493</link>
		<dc:creator>Picard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 14:40:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/#comment-2493</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The off the cuff analysis seems greatly flawed. I doubt there is a municipal or suburban library in the country that gets 100$ per month per capita or even per household from the persons with in it&#039;s service area. Not even close.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The off the cuff analysis seems greatly flawed. I doubt there is a municipal or suburban library in the country that gets 100$ per month per capita or even per household from the persons with in it&#8217;s service area. Not even close.</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler Enfield</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-2494</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler Enfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 13:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/#comment-2494</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a children&#039;s author, I hear talk of print books going out of fashion, being replaced by kindles and various digital services- and of course the need to jump on the digital bandwagon, which I may- however books aren&#039;t going away for the simple reason that people like them. We touch them, we hold them, they even share our beds- no wonder people speak of their romance. I think libraries, for all the challenges they face, hold a similar place in our social psyche. As others have pointed out, there&#039;s an entire experience on offer. Bars don&#039;t go out of business because liquor stores open. As long as people continue to enjoy books, and the buildings we house them in, I have no fear of their ever being digitally replaced.

tylerenfield.blogspot.com]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a children&#8217;s author, I hear talk of print books going out of fashion, being replaced by kindles and various digital services- and of course the need to jump on the digital bandwagon, which I may- however books aren&#8217;t going away for the simple reason that people like them. We touch them, we hold them, they even share our beds- no wonder people speak of their romance. I think libraries, for all the challenges they face, hold a similar place in our social psyche. As others have pointed out, there&#8217;s an entire experience on offer. Bars don&#8217;t go out of business because liquor stores open. As long as people continue to enjoy books, and the buildings we house them in, I have no fear of their ever being digitally replaced.</p>
<p>tylerenfield.blogspot.com</p>
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		<title>By: NotMariantheLibrarian</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-2495</link>
		<dc:creator>NotMariantheLibrarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 20:29:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/#comment-2495</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great advice, Lying Librarian.  We sure aren&#039;t adding professional staff and I anticipate losing some if the economy doesn&#039;t pick up.  

It&#039;s always been a tough job market - I&#039;ve been writing that for ages.  It was hard 30 years ago and I had to move to a place I wasn&#039;t interested in.  That said, I&#039;ve enjoyed it immensely, did make some decent $$ when I got a corporate job and have had the good fortune to move into low-paying academia.

It&#039;s a buyer&#039;s market - we got nearly 30 applicants for one job.  Most of the resumes were from people who had never worked in a library and had online degrees.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great advice, Lying Librarian.  We sure aren&#8217;t adding professional staff and I anticipate losing some if the economy doesn&#8217;t pick up.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s always been a tough job market &#8211; I&#8217;ve been writing that for ages.  It was hard 30 years ago and I had to move to a place I wasn&#8217;t interested in.  That said, I&#8217;ve enjoyed it immensely, did make some decent $$ when I got a corporate job and have had the good fortune to move into low-paying academia.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a buyer&#8217;s market &#8211; we got nearly 30 applicants for one job.  Most of the resumes were from people who had never worked in a library and had online degrees.</p>
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		<title>By: Lying Librarian</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-2496</link>
		<dc:creator>Lying Librarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:44:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/#comment-2496</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I met two people this week who are considering the online degree from UNT. Don&#039;t do it!!!!!&quot;

The ONLY people who should be getting a library degree nowadays are people who meet the following criteria:
1.  already have a job where the degree would be helpful
2. that job is located in a city with a college that offers an MLIS program
2. the job provides tuition reimbursement.

Kids, if you don&#039;t meet the three criteria above, DON&#039;T DO IT.

DO NOT take out $40,000 in student loans to get a library degree.

DO NOT pay for out of state tuition to get a library degree, online or otherwise.

DO NOT pursue a library degree if you haven&#039;t already worked in a library, or if you aren&#039;t working in one right now.

DO NOT pay any of your own money to get this degree.

That said, if you are already working somewhere, enjoy the work, and there is a decent school nearby, and your work will pay for it, then by all means, go for it.  

There must be about a dozen or so people nationwide who meet these criteria.  That wouldn&#039;t be enough folks to keep all the library school professors out there employed, however.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I met two people this week who are considering the online degree from UNT. Don&#8217;t do it!!!!!&#8221;</p>
<p>The ONLY people who should be getting a library degree nowadays are people who meet the following criteria:<br />
1.  already have a job where the degree would be helpful<br />
2. that job is located in a city with a college that offers an MLIS program<br />
2. the job provides tuition reimbursement.</p>
<p>Kids, if you don&#8217;t meet the three criteria above, DON&#8217;T DO IT.</p>
<p>DO NOT take out $40,000 in student loans to get a library degree.</p>
<p>DO NOT pay for out of state tuition to get a library degree, online or otherwise.</p>
<p>DO NOT pursue a library degree if you haven&#8217;t already worked in a library, or if you aren&#8217;t working in one right now.</p>
<p>DO NOT pay any of your own money to get this degree.</p>
<p>That said, if you are already working somewhere, enjoy the work, and there is a decent school nearby, and your work will pay for it, then by all means, go for it.  </p>
<p>There must be about a dozen or so people nationwide who meet these criteria.  That wouldn&#8217;t be enough folks to keep all the library school professors out there employed, however.</p>
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		<title>By: I Like Books</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-2497</link>
		<dc:creator>I Like Books</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 04:11:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/#comment-2497</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I use libraries. Not for the computers-- I have one at home, and can log into the library databases from here. (Where do people get the idea that everything is available for free on the internet? Or that everything is available on the internet?) Not for fiction-- I have a backlog on my shelves and never seem to have trouble getting more. I get free DVDs, I admit, although not since there was last snow on the ground.

Mostly I read non-fiction. Maybe six titles in the last few months, it would have cost maybe $100 or $200 if I&#039;d bought them. That&#039;s a significant barrier compared with browsing a section and getting something relevant to whatever current events, history, or science you happen to want to know more about.

I see the importance of libraries in educating the public, and as repositories for accumulated knowledge (e.g. newspaper archives). They serve an important function in any democracy. It&#039;s perverse to ask a citizen to spend hundreds of dollars of their own money to read about stuff that&#039;s happening when their vote affects others besides themselves. It&#039;s hard enough to get people to read a book when it&#039;s free.

The romance and the DVDs and all the rest of that stuff, it&#039;s nice and everything. Especially if it gets more people in the doors. But we shouldn&#039;t be placed in a position of defending a library when people are getting their romances and DVDs elsewhere. The core mission is important enough that the usage of romances and DVDs shouldn&#039;t come into the decision.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use libraries. Not for the computers&#8211; I have one at home, and can log into the library databases from here. (Where do people get the idea that everything is available for free on the internet? Or that everything is available on the internet?) Not for fiction&#8211; I have a backlog on my shelves and never seem to have trouble getting more. I get free DVDs, I admit, although not since there was last snow on the ground.</p>
<p>Mostly I read non-fiction. Maybe six titles in the last few months, it would have cost maybe $100 or $200 if I&#8217;d bought them. That&#8217;s a significant barrier compared with browsing a section and getting something relevant to whatever current events, history, or science you happen to want to know more about.</p>
<p>I see the importance of libraries in educating the public, and as repositories for accumulated knowledge (e.g. newspaper archives). They serve an important function in any democracy. It&#8217;s perverse to ask a citizen to spend hundreds of dollars of their own money to read about stuff that&#8217;s happening when their vote affects others besides themselves. It&#8217;s hard enough to get people to read a book when it&#8217;s free.</p>
<p>The romance and the DVDs and all the rest of that stuff, it&#8217;s nice and everything. Especially if it gets more people in the doors. But we shouldn&#8217;t be placed in a position of defending a library when people are getting their romances and DVDs elsewhere. The core mission is important enough that the usage of romances and DVDs shouldn&#8217;t come into the decision.</p>
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		<title>By: NotMarianTheLibrarian</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-2498</link>
		<dc:creator>NotMarianTheLibrarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/#comment-2498</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Libraries are closing or reducing their hours, yet the latest issue of American Libraries had an article about the great job market for librarians and how we&#039;re likely to need lots more in the coming years.  

And I met two people this week who are considering the online degree from UNT.  Don&#039;t do it!!!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Libraries are closing or reducing their hours, yet the latest issue of American Libraries had an article about the great job market for librarians and how we&#8217;re likely to need lots more in the coming years.  </p>
<p>And I met two people this week who are considering the online degree from UNT.  Don&#8217;t do it!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: HippieMan</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-2499</link>
		<dc:creator>HippieMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 13:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/#comment-2499</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, if we raised taxes on the rich and cut our insanely bloated &quot;defense&quot; budget, then perhaps, just perhaps, we&#039;d have enough money for social services like public libraries and schools.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, if we raised taxes on the rich and cut our insanely bloated &#8220;defense&#8221; budget, then perhaps, just perhaps, we&#8217;d have enough money for social services like public libraries and schools.</p>
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		<title>By: Patron</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-2500</link>
		<dc:creator>Patron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 10:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/08/the-value-of-empty-libraries/#comment-2500</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not to sound idealistic, but I think that you are missing something here.  A lot of people got to the library for the same reason they go  to a bar, movie theater, or concert.  It&#039;s not that they cannot get the same access elsewhere, it&#039;s that there is something in the experience worth having.  I know that sounds trite, but bear with me.

A library is not just a place that houses books and DVDs for people to rent, has public computers for the to use, or is a place to find information.  It is also a place to get away from the normal distractions that a person has elsewhere; for instance, I cannot study at my computer at home, although I wish I could.  There are too many distractions that keep me from focusing on my work.  I know some people can focus at home, but for me I would rather not &quot;go home&quot; to work.  The library provides a work environment for me to feel less distracted and I know I won&#039;t go home until my work is done.

A library also serves as a center for the community.  While you can also interact with people online, there is something to be said for the discussion and connection you have in person, whether working as a study group or checking out the latest baseball statistics.

Most people may not realize this about the library, but the experience it affords is different than that of NetFlix, wikipedia, or Barnes and Noble.  For one thing, it&#039;s nice that we aren&#039;t constantly trying to sell you something.  I like the fact that I am a librarian, not a car dealer, and people definitely respond to you differently in that light.

So while it is true that people can definitely receive the same access to information and documents elsewhere, there is more to us than is so neatly summarized by a fifth-grade observation.

Finally, this same argument about &quot;no one needs libraries now that the Internet is here&quot; has been paraded by magazines and newspapers for almost two decades now.  The &quot;obsolescence&quot; of the library.  Does anyone else see the irony in the fact that this comes while newspapers and magazines are shutting down from lack of subscribers and we (at least my library) has only ever had more circulation, patrons with active library accounts, and programming. Perhaps we need to stop heeding their advice.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to sound idealistic, but I think that you are missing something here.  A lot of people got to the library for the same reason they go  to a bar, movie theater, or concert.  It&#8217;s not that they cannot get the same access elsewhere, it&#8217;s that there is something in the experience worth having.  I know that sounds trite, but bear with me.</p>
<p>A library is not just a place that houses books and DVDs for people to rent, has public computers for the to use, or is a place to find information.  It is also a place to get away from the normal distractions that a person has elsewhere; for instance, I cannot study at my computer at home, although I wish I could.  There are too many distractions that keep me from focusing on my work.  I know some people can focus at home, but for me I would rather not &#8220;go home&#8221; to work.  The library provides a work environment for me to feel less distracted and I know I won&#8217;t go home until my work is done.</p>
<p>A library also serves as a center for the community.  While you can also interact with people online, there is something to be said for the discussion and connection you have in person, whether working as a study group or checking out the latest baseball statistics.</p>
<p>Most people may not realize this about the library, but the experience it affords is different than that of NetFlix, wikipedia, or Barnes and Noble.  For one thing, it&#8217;s nice that we aren&#8217;t constantly trying to sell you something.  I like the fact that I am a librarian, not a car dealer, and people definitely respond to you differently in that light.</p>
<p>So while it is true that people can definitely receive the same access to information and documents elsewhere, there is more to us than is so neatly summarized by a fifth-grade observation.</p>
<p>Finally, this same argument about &#8220;no one needs libraries now that the Internet is here&#8221; has been paraded by magazines and newspapers for almost two decades now.  The &#8220;obsolescence&#8221; of the library.  Does anyone else see the irony in the fact that this comes while newspapers and magazines are shutting down from lack of subscribers and we (at least my library) has only ever had more circulation, patrons with active library accounts, and programming. Perhaps we need to stop heeding their advice.</p>
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