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	<title>Comments on: On Dumb Librarians</title>
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	<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/</link>
	<description>Whatever It Is, I&#039;m Against It</description>
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		<title>By: Not so fast</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/comment-page-1/#comment-2165</link>
		<dc:creator>Not so fast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/#comment-2165</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;No other profession (and I&#039;ve been in plenty of other professions) spends as much time and energy telling themselves how smart and useful they are.&quot;

As a law librarian, I can attest that my position puts me quite at the nexus of two separate professions which do that equally well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;No other profession (and I&#8217;ve been in plenty of other professions) spends as much time and energy telling themselves how smart and useful they are.&#8221;</p>
<p>As a law librarian, I can attest that my position puts me quite at the nexus of two separate professions which do that equally well.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous Librarian</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/comment-page-1/#comment-2166</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous Librarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 14:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/#comment-2166</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One problem that hasn&#039;t been mentioned is the way many librarians WANT the MLS to be a requirement to have a library job.  I know an awful lot of librarians who are quite offended when someone without an MLS is referred to as a librarian.  

At the last library I worked, the public service desks were staffed nearly exclusively with non-degreed &quot;reference assistants.&quot; Well, since those are the people patrons see, they think they are the librarians.  The administration and a few of the MLS-holders were so upset they were debating having the &quot;real&quot; librarians wear a special vest or smock (imagine Wal-Mart) to denote them as actual librarians.  Thankfully, that idea was never put into practice.

And I see lots of librarians who sign their e-mails &quot;Jane Doe, MLIS&quot;.  Really?? Is that necessary?  

Frankly, the public we serve could care less if we spent $20,000 on a degree (or more).  They want to know if we can give them the information/item they want or need.  That&#039;s it.  For those who don&#039;t work directly with the public; their work supports those who do.  And there are some positions that do require an advanced degree.  But for the majority of library work - no MLS is required. You just gotta help people find what they need.

After one semester in library school, I realized how much I was being cheated.  But I wanted a library job, so what choice did I have?  Now I have my degree and my cushy library job, but I&#039;m out a whole lot of money.  

And to those who try to argue library school is hard; I worked a full-time and a part-time job and finished my degree in 2 years.  Without breaking a sweat.  Sure, occasionally I had a challenging assignment.  But mostly it was just a big huge waste of time.  Very little of what I worked on in library school is useful to me in my library job.  

A large number of librarians just need to get over themselves.  No other profession (and I&#039;ve been in plenty of other professions) spends as much time and energy telling themselves how smart and useful they are.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One problem that hasn&#8217;t been mentioned is the way many librarians WANT the MLS to be a requirement to have a library job.  I know an awful lot of librarians who are quite offended when someone without an MLS is referred to as a librarian.  </p>
<p>At the last library I worked, the public service desks were staffed nearly exclusively with non-degreed &#8220;reference assistants.&#8221; Well, since those are the people patrons see, they think they are the librarians.  The administration and a few of the MLS-holders were so upset they were debating having the &#8220;real&#8221; librarians wear a special vest or smock (imagine Wal-Mart) to denote them as actual librarians.  Thankfully, that idea was never put into practice.</p>
<p>And I see lots of librarians who sign their e-mails &#8220;Jane Doe, MLIS&#8221;.  Really?? Is that necessary?  </p>
<p>Frankly, the public we serve could care less if we spent $20,000 on a degree (or more).  They want to know if we can give them the information/item they want or need.  That&#8217;s it.  For those who don&#8217;t work directly with the public; their work supports those who do.  And there are some positions that do require an advanced degree.  But for the majority of library work &#8211; no MLS is required. You just gotta help people find what they need.</p>
<p>After one semester in library school, I realized how much I was being cheated.  But I wanted a library job, so what choice did I have?  Now I have my degree and my cushy library job, but I&#8217;m out a whole lot of money.  </p>
<p>And to those who try to argue library school is hard; I worked a full-time and a part-time job and finished my degree in 2 years.  Without breaking a sweat.  Sure, occasionally I had a challenging assignment.  But mostly it was just a big huge waste of time.  Very little of what I worked on in library school is useful to me in my library job.  </p>
<p>A large number of librarians just need to get over themselves.  No other profession (and I&#8217;ve been in plenty of other professions) spends as much time and energy telling themselves how smart and useful they are.</p>
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		<title>By: ktaushea</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/comment-page-1/#comment-2167</link>
		<dc:creator>ktaushea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/#comment-2167</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve worked for years as a paraprofessional and am about to receive my MILS. For me the degree was a matter of hoop jumping. While some of the classes I took were worthwhile most were pretty ridiculous and a total waste of time. Yes, many of the students I attended school were dumb and it was utterly depressing.  Some had never worked in a library before  - a detail I found mind boggling. Bottom line -  Librarianship is like any other profession or job- no matter where you get your degree there will always be someone who is incompetent. Bad Physicians and lawyers are a testament to this theory and they liable to do much more harm then dumb librarians.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve worked for years as a paraprofessional and am about to receive my MILS. For me the degree was a matter of hoop jumping. While some of the classes I took were worthwhile most were pretty ridiculous and a total waste of time. Yes, many of the students I attended school were dumb and it was utterly depressing.  Some had never worked in a library before  &#8211; a detail I found mind boggling. Bottom line &#8211;  Librarianship is like any other profession or job- no matter where you get your degree there will always be someone who is incompetent. Bad Physicians and lawyers are a testament to this theory and they liable to do much more harm then dumb librarians.</p>
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		<title>By: 7ag</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/comment-page-1/#comment-2168</link>
		<dc:creator>7ag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/#comment-2168</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s nice to see someone say what a lot of others won&#039;t say. I was prepared for graduate school to be more difficult than undergraduate. Ha!  I was shocked to get into a top-tier MLIS program and immediately find that not only were most of my classes easy and practically pointless, but many of the other students found these courses too difficult and complained about the amount of work that was required of them. There are quite a few other students in my cohonrt who are in no way qualified for graduate level work of any kind, yet they are passing their classes with good grades, talking teachers into reducing the amount of readings, etc. I&#039;ve had a couple of very good professors, but for the most part I&#039;m counting on my own independent work, internships, and networking to get me a job, not what I&#039;ve learned in classes. How could I, when a class of a hundred people all get the same grade on their final papers?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s nice to see someone say what a lot of others won&#8217;t say. I was prepared for graduate school to be more difficult than undergraduate. Ha!  I was shocked to get into a top-tier MLIS program and immediately find that not only were most of my classes easy and practically pointless, but many of the other students found these courses too difficult and complained about the amount of work that was required of them. There are quite a few other students in my cohonrt who are in no way qualified for graduate level work of any kind, yet they are passing their classes with good grades, talking teachers into reducing the amount of readings, etc. I&#8217;ve had a couple of very good professors, but for the most part I&#8217;m counting on my own independent work, internships, and networking to get me a job, not what I&#8217;ve learned in classes. How could I, when a class of a hundred people all get the same grade on their final papers?</p>
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		<title>By: Auntie Nanuuq</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/comment-page-1/#comment-2169</link>
		<dc:creator>Auntie Nanuuq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/#comment-2169</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If your so worn out by the MLIS degree and it&#039;s simplicity, I suggest you study brain surgery or rocket science.  That might be just the challenge you need.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As for distance programs...yawn, yes I worked on my degree online.  I also worked in the library full-time at the same time.  I had no one to support me, so I was unable to quit my job and go to school full-time.  But I did work online 7 days a week, every night after work (sometimes until 1:00 am) and on my days off.  Oh that was sooooooooooooo easy! Ayup!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;What made the degree easy for me was my infinite actual full-time library employment experience.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;My pay is pretty damn good as are my benefits....I may not be getting a raise for the next two years, but I am getting the cost increase of my health care insurance picked up.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;So Al is a &quot;Harpy&quot;? So what??? I had a patron tell one of my staff members that I&#039;m a BITCH (I wouldn&#039;t cancel his &amp; his wifes fines)!!! 1:  being a Crabby Bitch is just part of my charm.  2. Babe In Total Control (of) Herself!  You betcha!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If your so worn out by the MLIS degree and it&#8217;s simplicity, I suggest you study brain surgery or rocket science.  That might be just the challenge you need.</p>
<p>As for distance programs&#8230;yawn, yes I worked on my degree online.  I also worked in the library full-time at the same time.  I had no one to support me, so I was unable to quit my job and go to school full-time.  But I did work online 7 days a week, every night after work (sometimes until 1:00 am) and on my days off.  Oh that was sooooooooooooo easy! Ayup!</p>
<p>What made the degree easy for me was my infinite actual full-time library employment experience.</p>
<p>My pay is pretty damn good as are my benefits&#8230;.I may not be getting a raise for the next two years, but I am getting the cost increase of my health care insurance picked up.</p>
<p>So Al is a &#8220;Harpy&#8221;? So what??? I had a patron tell one of my staff members that I&#8217;m a BITCH (I wouldn&#8217;t cancel his &#038; his wifes fines)!!! 1:  being a Crabby Bitch is just part of my charm.  2. Babe In Total Control (of) Herself!  You betcha!</p>
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		<title>By: Sonny Hill</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/comment-page-1/#comment-2170</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonny Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/#comment-2170</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All I know is, my family expected me to get a Master&#039;s in SOMEthing, and I&#039;ll be darned if I&#039;m living with that guilt and disappointment for the next 25 years on a Library Associate&#039;s pay.  (It&#039;s funny because it&#039;s true!)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I know is, my family expected me to get a Master&#8217;s in SOMEthing, and I&#8217;ll be darned if I&#8217;m living with that guilt and disappointment for the next 25 years on a Library Associate&#8217;s pay.  (It&#8217;s funny because it&#8217;s true!)</p>
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		<title>By: Halloween Jack</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/comment-page-1/#comment-2171</link>
		<dc:creator>Halloween Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/#comment-2171</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d describe the problem as being more &quot;people who are unsuited for library work, for one reason or another&quot; rather than &quot;dumb librarians&quot;, although I have to admit that AL&#039;s formulation rolls more easily off the tongue. I&#039;d generally agree with n7bbb&#039;s comment: &quot;I have certainly had the pleasure of working with some really insane people with a MLIS. And some that are very socially awkward and angry. And I&#039;ve seen some bright young people who ruined their careers by being difficult to work with because their arrogance didn&#039;t allow them to take orders from anyone.&quot; Honestly, those people exist in every profession and every graduate program; there&#039;s only so much that you can reasonably screen for in the graduate school application process, and even if you include a requirement for an MMPI, some people will learn how to game it. 

One of the problems with library school, however, is that we get a lot of people who wash out of other graduate programs, and while some of them do so because they decided late in the game that they just didn&#039;t want to pursue that particular field of study any more, you also have some people that have the problems listed above, and can&#039;t or won&#039;t deal with them before moving on. I graduated from library school at a time when about the only people in the country that were hiring in any numbers were the three New York City public library systems, but they were hiring a lot of people, and a number of my class decided that they&#039;d accept the relatively low pay because a) it was a foot in the door and b) freakin&#039; NYC, man! (I was one of them, and man, such times we had...) But there were also several people who refused to consider even the possibility of working for a public library, even the vaunted NYPL, because the only job that they would settle for was one as an academic librarian in the field that they&#039;d previously failed in. And that was when the job market wasn&#039;t nearly as depressing as it is now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d describe the problem as being more &#8220;people who are unsuited for library work, for one reason or another&#8221; rather than &#8220;dumb librarians&#8221;, although I have to admit that AL&#8217;s formulation rolls more easily off the tongue. I&#8217;d generally agree with n7bbb&#8217;s comment: &#8220;I have certainly had the pleasure of working with some really insane people with a MLIS. And some that are very socially awkward and angry. And I&#8217;ve seen some bright young people who ruined their careers by being difficult to work with because their arrogance didn&#8217;t allow them to take orders from anyone.&#8221; Honestly, those people exist in every profession and every graduate program; there&#8217;s only so much that you can reasonably screen for in the graduate school application process, and even if you include a requirement for an MMPI, some people will learn how to game it. </p>
<p>One of the problems with library school, however, is that we get a lot of people who wash out of other graduate programs, and while some of them do so because they decided late in the game that they just didn&#8217;t want to pursue that particular field of study any more, you also have some people that have the problems listed above, and can&#8217;t or won&#8217;t deal with them before moving on. I graduated from library school at a time when about the only people in the country that were hiring in any numbers were the three New York City public library systems, but they were hiring a lot of people, and a number of my class decided that they&#8217;d accept the relatively low pay because a) it was a foot in the door and b) freakin&#8217; NYC, man! (I was one of them, and man, such times we had&#8230;) But there were also several people who refused to consider even the possibility of working for a public library, even the vaunted NYPL, because the only job that they would settle for was one as an academic librarian in the field that they&#8217;d previously failed in. And that was when the job market wasn&#8217;t nearly as depressing as it is now.</p>
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		<title>By: SuziLibrarian</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/comment-page-1/#comment-2172</link>
		<dc:creator>SuziLibrarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/#comment-2172</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The student loan fiasco is not limited to library school students, but the low wages make it worse for us than for others. I would advise against higher education for almost anyone who has to go into severe debt to graduate. I just hope I can keep my job with all the budget cuts we&#039;re facing from our county government.
That said, I do enjoy my job, while I can maintain a simple (frugal) lifestyle.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The student loan fiasco is not limited to library school students, but the low wages make it worse for us than for others. I would advise against higher education for almost anyone who has to go into severe debt to graduate. I just hope I can keep my job with all the budget cuts we&#8217;re facing from our county government.<br />
That said, I do enjoy my job, while I can maintain a simple (frugal) lifestyle.</p>
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		<title>By: LibrarianToBe</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/comment-page-1/#comment-2173</link>
		<dc:creator>LibrarianToBe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 11:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/#comment-2173</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Irrelevant Librarian: I think there&#039;s too little credit given to teenagers and children. Look at how things are moving. There are less and less people who don&#039;t know how to use a computer (it&#039;s called aging of the population) and there are more and more tools that allow you to access information so easily you don&#039;t even need a mouse. Put two and two together and then tell if Reference has a future. Or better yet, tell me what is the future of Reference. I&#039;ve asked ONE reference question since I&#039;m in the program. It was an endNote question which, if I had had the patience to fool around with my citation guides and the software I would&#039;ve skipped the librarian altogether. The databaes and the rest of reference sources are not such a big mystery, there is just laziness or lack of time. Give some credit to the generations that are coming after you. You are making the same assumption, you think that teenagers only fool around with facebook and can&#039;t spell but they have more technological skills than you and I put together.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Irrelevant Librarian: I think there&#8217;s too little credit given to teenagers and children. Look at how things are moving. There are less and less people who don&#8217;t know how to use a computer (it&#8217;s called aging of the population) and there are more and more tools that allow you to access information so easily you don&#8217;t even need a mouse. Put two and two together and then tell if Reference has a future. Or better yet, tell me what is the future of Reference. I&#8217;ve asked ONE reference question since I&#8217;m in the program. It was an endNote question which, if I had had the patience to fool around with my citation guides and the software I would&#8217;ve skipped the librarian altogether. The databaes and the rest of reference sources are not such a big mystery, there is just laziness or lack of time. Give some credit to the generations that are coming after you. You are making the same assumption, you think that teenagers only fool around with facebook and can&#8217;t spell but they have more technological skills than you and I put together.</p>
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		<title>By: Librarian Larry</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/comment-page-1/#comment-2174</link>
		<dc:creator>Librarian Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:29:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2009/10/26/on-dumb-librarians/#comment-2174</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oddly enough, I find Olympia Snowe quite attractive. She&#039;s a cougar........ grrrr.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oddly enough, I find Olympia Snowe quite attractive. She&#8217;s a cougar&#8230;&#8230;.. grrrr.</p>
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