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	<title>Comments on: Conservatives and Libraries</title>
	<atom:link href="http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/</link>
	<description>Whatever It Is, I&#039;m Against It</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 18:36:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-9246</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jun 2010 14:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/#comment-9246</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Also Spekkio does your name come from Chrono Trigger, and if so how does it feel to be awesome?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also Spekkio does your name come from Chrono Trigger, and if so how does it feel to be awesome?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-9245</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jun 2010 14:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/#comment-9245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kem: Wow, libraries preexist videogames and video pornography, what a fascinating observation from our amateur historian here.  Libraries have been around for thousands of years.  You know what?  Libraries also should not stock books that are newer than themselves.  That&#039;s a great point, a really solid point from Kem.  Thanks, Kem.  Do be sure to fire up that keyboard and let me in on another one of your fascinating little insights.

And Big Bad Jon, I don&#039;t really know who would need to see pornography in a public library.  I&#039;m not crazy about the idea of sitting next to some furiously-masturbating homeless guy or a posse of giggling thirteen year olds at the computer terminal.  It could be disruptive, and if you were to masturbate in public I&#039;m sure I&#039;d be very distracted.  I would want to ask you all kinds of questions - why have you chosen this as your personal mode of expression?  For whom is the performance intended?  Does your literal masturbation mirror the masturbatory character of any artistic act, and does it represent a cutting remark you impart to society and your peers, all self-labeled &quot;artists,&quot; or is it more of a self-reproach for the hubris to assume you might possibly create art that&#039;s worthwhile for other people? Etc.

In all seriousness, pornography could be disruptive as heck, so my defense of pornography is, admittedly, impractical, but philosophically I really do believe that libraries of all places cannot limit freedom of information.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kem: Wow, libraries preexist videogames and video pornography, what a fascinating observation from our amateur historian here.  Libraries have been around for thousands of years.  You know what?  Libraries also should not stock books that are newer than themselves.  That&#8217;s a great point, a really solid point from Kem.  Thanks, Kem.  Do be sure to fire up that keyboard and let me in on another one of your fascinating little insights.</p>
<p>And Big Bad Jon, I don&#8217;t really know who would need to see pornography in a public library.  I&#8217;m not crazy about the idea of sitting next to some furiously-masturbating homeless guy or a posse of giggling thirteen year olds at the computer terminal.  It could be disruptive, and if you were to masturbate in public I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;d be very distracted.  I would want to ask you all kinds of questions &#8211; why have you chosen this as your personal mode of expression?  For whom is the performance intended?  Does your literal masturbation mirror the masturbatory character of any artistic act, and does it represent a cutting remark you impart to society and your peers, all self-labeled &#8220;artists,&#8221; or is it more of a self-reproach for the hubris to assume you might possibly create art that&#8217;s worthwhile for other people? Etc.</p>
<p>In all seriousness, pornography could be disruptive as heck, so my defense of pornography is, admittedly, impractical, but philosophically I really do believe that libraries of all places cannot limit freedom of information.</p>
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		<title>By: Spekkio</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-9209</link>
		<dc:creator>Spekkio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jun 2010 02:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/#comment-9209</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, please, let&#039;s sarcastically denigrate videogames simply because they are a young medium, and let&#039;s also imply that they are unworthy - &quot;not public as in toilet.&quot; Lovely.

If you are ever interested in hearing an argument for videogames as a legitimate part of our culture and a medium capable of artistic expression, let me know.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, please, let&#8217;s sarcastically denigrate videogames simply because they are a young medium, and let&#8217;s also imply that they are unworthy &#8211; &#8220;not public as in toilet.&#8221; Lovely.</p>
<p>If you are ever interested in hearing an argument for videogames as a legitimate part of our culture and a medium capable of artistic expression, let me know.</p>
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		<title>By: Kem</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-9169</link>
		<dc:creator>Kem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 16:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/#comment-9169</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Funny, libraries have existed for centuries and yet failed to provide access to either porn (as distinguished from the Merck Manual or Greek vases) or videogames. It is only in modern times that providing these has even been considered. I&#039;d like to get back to a time when the public in library meant public as in public institution, not public as in toilet.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny, libraries have existed for centuries and yet failed to provide access to either porn (as distinguished from the Merck Manual or Greek vases) or videogames. It is only in modern times that providing these has even been considered. I&#8217;d like to get back to a time when the public in library meant public as in public institution, not public as in toilet.</p>
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		<title>By: Big Bad Jon</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-9160</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Bad Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jun 2010 14:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/#comment-9160</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The libraries have to provide access to porn and videogames because they are genres of expression. You may view them as lower forms of art, but there is nothing that objectively differentiates porn and videogames from novels, magazines, plays and DVDs. The library provides access to everything in order to provide 

My form of performance art is to masturbate in public.  I am glad that I can find some porn for free in libraries and a place to express my artistic bent.

Free at last!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The libraries have to provide access to porn and videogames because they are genres of expression. You may view them as lower forms of art, but there is nothing that objectively differentiates porn and videogames from novels, magazines, plays and DVDs. The library provides access to everything in order to provide </p>
<p>My form of performance art is to masturbate in public.  I am glad that I can find some porn for free in libraries and a place to express my artistic bent.</p>
<p>Free at last!</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-9151</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 May 2010 17:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/#comment-9151</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I realize a lot of libraries don’t take this mission seriously, and they think that they’re somehow fulfilling their public mission by providing access to Internet porn and videogames...&quot;  

The libraries have to provide access to porn and videogames because they are genres of expression.  You may view them as lower forms of art, but there is nothing that objectively differentiates porn and videogames from novels, magazines, plays and DVDs.  The library provides access to everything in order to provide 

&quot;the best of human culture and make it available for the masses,&quot;

because the alternative would be to have librarians (or worse, politicians or priests) selecting what citizens are allowed access to.  In short, libraries must provide everything - including, gasp, pornography - because &quot;the best of human culture&quot; is defined by aggregates and averages of opinions from the whole of that culture.  Any other system would be elitist, impractical, and irrelevant to the course of history.

We probably agree on a lot of what I just said, but your word choice - &quot;Internet porn and videogames,&quot; &quot;the masses,&quot; - make you sound prudish, narrowminded and silly, just like the groups you&#039;re criticizing in this post.  I doubt they are your views, but there is a danger here of phrasing your arguments in the terms of the far right.  

In short, referring pejoratively to &quot;porn and videogames&quot; is hypocritical, since I&#039;m sure you&#039;ve indulged in both things yourself, as every member of the human race naturally pursues some form of sexual simulation and game-playing, even if these activities are not facilitated by the internet.  It also weakens your point that library content should be uncensored, as you&#039;re applying value judgments to the information you provide.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I realize a lot of libraries don’t take this mission seriously, and they think that they’re somehow fulfilling their public mission by providing access to Internet porn and videogames&#8230;&#8221;  </p>
<p>The libraries have to provide access to porn and videogames because they are genres of expression.  You may view them as lower forms of art, but there is nothing that objectively differentiates porn and videogames from novels, magazines, plays and DVDs.  The library provides access to everything in order to provide </p>
<p>&#8220;the best of human culture and make it available for the masses,&#8221;</p>
<p>because the alternative would be to have librarians (or worse, politicians or priests) selecting what citizens are allowed access to.  In short, libraries must provide everything &#8211; including, gasp, pornography &#8211; because &#8220;the best of human culture&#8221; is defined by aggregates and averages of opinions from the whole of that culture.  Any other system would be elitist, impractical, and irrelevant to the course of history.</p>
<p>We probably agree on a lot of what I just said, but your word choice &#8211; &#8220;Internet porn and videogames,&#8221; &#8220;the masses,&#8221; &#8211; make you sound prudish, narrowminded and silly, just like the groups you&#8217;re criticizing in this post.  I doubt they are your views, but there is a danger here of phrasing your arguments in the terms of the far right.  </p>
<p>In short, referring pejoratively to &#8220;porn and videogames&#8221; is hypocritical, since I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve indulged in both things yourself, as every member of the human race naturally pursues some form of sexual simulation and game-playing, even if these activities are not facilitated by the internet.  It also weakens your point that library content should be uncensored, as you&#8217;re applying value judgments to the information you provide.</p>
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		<title>By: Spekkio</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-9149</link>
		<dc:creator>Spekkio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 May 2010 17:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/#comment-9149</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For the most part, I really enjoyed this post. I may not agree with the tenets of conservatism (particularly the distinction between &quot;deserving and undeserving poor&quot;) but I appreciate its value in keeping our politics in balance. A professor of economics once explained it to me as a pendulum...sometimes it swings to the left, and sometimes it swings to the right.

My only criticism is the AL&#039;s constant drumbeat of &quot;videogames are bad.&quot; I think that videogames - and entertainment materials in general - have a place in libraries. What I think that libraries fail to do is to try to use those entertainment materials as a springboard to other intellectual pursuits. For example, if your library has a weekly program for teenagers to play &quot;Guitar Hero&quot; or &quot;Rock Band,&quot; that would be the perfect time to work on building an appreciation for music, music history, biographies, etc. If the teens don&#039;t take to it, that&#039;s their problem and their loss. (Horse, water.)

I also think that the Political Compass website is extremely helpful, and I strongly recommend it to everyone. It&#039;s at political-compass.org. It&#039;s also on (oh, gasp) Facebook. Basically, the idea behind it is that the traditional ideas of &quot;left&quot; and &quot;right&quot; don&#039;t really explain enough - there&#039;s a social left/right and an economic left/right. You can be an economic conservative and a social liberal or vice-versa.

I also enjoyed many of NJ&#039;s comments, aside from the canonizing of Andrew Carnegie. I&#039;m a native of the Pittsburgh area and a Scotsman by heritage - if anyone would idolize him, it would be me. As a student of history, however, I know better. I&#039;ve written about this in the comments of previous posts here on AL&#039;s blog.

Last point: calls for civility are wonderful and should be echoed far and wide. If you haven&#039;t already, check out the Coffee Party, a group whose mission is to promote civility in political discourse.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the most part, I really enjoyed this post. I may not agree with the tenets of conservatism (particularly the distinction between &#8220;deserving and undeserving poor&#8221;) but I appreciate its value in keeping our politics in balance. A professor of economics once explained it to me as a pendulum&#8230;sometimes it swings to the left, and sometimes it swings to the right.</p>
<p>My only criticism is the AL&#8217;s constant drumbeat of &#8220;videogames are bad.&#8221; I think that videogames &#8211; and entertainment materials in general &#8211; have a place in libraries. What I think that libraries fail to do is to try to use those entertainment materials as a springboard to other intellectual pursuits. For example, if your library has a weekly program for teenagers to play &#8220;Guitar Hero&#8221; or &#8220;Rock Band,&#8221; that would be the perfect time to work on building an appreciation for music, music history, biographies, etc. If the teens don&#8217;t take to it, that&#8217;s their problem and their loss. (Horse, water.)</p>
<p>I also think that the Political Compass website is extremely helpful, and I strongly recommend it to everyone. It&#8217;s at political-compass.org. It&#8217;s also on (oh, gasp) Facebook. Basically, the idea behind it is that the traditional ideas of &#8220;left&#8221; and &#8220;right&#8221; don&#8217;t really explain enough &#8211; there&#8217;s a social left/right and an economic left/right. You can be an economic conservative and a social liberal or vice-versa.</p>
<p>I also enjoyed many of NJ&#8217;s comments, aside from the canonizing of Andrew Carnegie. I&#8217;m a native of the Pittsburgh area and a Scotsman by heritage &#8211; if anyone would idolize him, it would be me. As a student of history, however, I know better. I&#8217;ve written about this in the comments of previous posts here on AL&#8217;s blog.</p>
<p>Last point: calls for civility are wonderful and should be echoed far and wide. If you haven&#8217;t already, check out the Coffee Party, a group whose mission is to promote civility in political discourse.</p>
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		<title>By: Postpartum Librarian</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-9041</link>
		<dc:creator>Postpartum Librarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 09:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/#comment-9041</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for the sound advice PPML.

What books would you recommend?

Thanks!!!  
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the sound advice PPML.</p>
<p>What books would you recommend?</p>
<p>Thanks!!!  </p>
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		<title>By: noutopianlibrarian</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-9042</link>
		<dc:creator>noutopianlibrarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 09:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/#comment-9042</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@postmodern - &quot;the attacks here show the biggest problem with todays political spectrum and system. Neither side knows how to behave better then children with name calling&quot;  I disagree - the biggest problem with the political system is that WASPs are becoming a minority and their political superiority is fading.  Among them, a very strong reactionary movement has emerged that attacks relentlessly, but is quick to respond to any analysis or exposure of their own positions as victims even though their domination and cultural, economic and ideological superiority remains (for now). The situation that has opened to libraries (and public schools) to calls for closure and withdrawal of support (I hear it daily on talk radio) is part of a much larger reentrenchment in the aftermath of the near collapse of the capitalist games in the financial markets.  Government interventions saved their a@*&amp;s over the last 2 years while  taking a toll on lives of most people and most governmental bodies.  While this toll has been mitigated by unemployment insurance and government stimulus programs through state and local governments and business tax credits, it is convenient for this reactionary movement to take with one hand and flip off the federal government with the other.  Meanwhile, incredibly well funded multi-millionaire talk show hosts purposefully fuel resentment and anger among the dissaffected overwhelming WASP segment with a combination of anti-government, veiled racist, anti-immigrant, and avowedly Judeo-Christian superiority rhetoric.  This propaganda campaign threatens to engulf libraries as a minor byproduct, along with science, public education, news media, school, poor, minorities, immigrants, unions, and many other targets of opportunity at a critical time where 11 trillion dollars (one estimate) has disappeared from the economy and millions are unemployed and relatively easy to incite.  The situation is ripe for this reactionary movement to continue growing and library staff, whether conservative, liberal, or the occasional wingnut, will be among their innocent targets if their industry/political handlers ever lose effective control to those who would allow concerns about video gaming and porn in libraries to look the other way as cuts are made and rhetoric ratchets up. So buck up &quot;oh poor victime me because I&#039;m a politically incorrect&quot; conservatives and mis-educated tea-partiers and take ownership of the cultural catastrophe you are creating in the aftermath of the financial catastrophe the strip mining of the Bush years has left us. When this political movement takes power over the next 2 national elections, watch your gubmint jobs go the way of the dodo and glory in your triumph!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@postmodern &#8211; &#8220;the attacks here show the biggest problem with todays political spectrum and system. Neither side knows how to behave better then children with name calling&#8221;  I disagree &#8211; the biggest problem with the political system is that WASPs are becoming a minority and their political superiority is fading.  Among them, a very strong reactionary movement has emerged that attacks relentlessly, but is quick to respond to any analysis or exposure of their own positions as victims even though their domination and cultural, economic and ideological superiority remains (for now). The situation that has opened to libraries (and public schools) to calls for closure and withdrawal of support (I hear it daily on talk radio) is part of a much larger reentrenchment in the aftermath of the near collapse of the capitalist games in the financial markets.  Government interventions saved their a@*&#038;s over the last 2 years while  taking a toll on lives of most people and most governmental bodies.  While this toll has been mitigated by unemployment insurance and government stimulus programs through state and local governments and business tax credits, it is convenient for this reactionary movement to take with one hand and flip off the federal government with the other.  Meanwhile, incredibly well funded multi-millionaire talk show hosts purposefully fuel resentment and anger among the dissaffected overwhelming WASP segment with a combination of anti-government, veiled racist, anti-immigrant, and avowedly Judeo-Christian superiority rhetoric.  This propaganda campaign threatens to engulf libraries as a minor byproduct, along with science, public education, news media, school, poor, minorities, immigrants, unions, and many other targets of opportunity at a critical time where 11 trillion dollars (one estimate) has disappeared from the economy and millions are unemployed and relatively easy to incite.  The situation is ripe for this reactionary movement to continue growing and library staff, whether conservative, liberal, or the occasional wingnut, will be among their innocent targets if their industry/political handlers ever lose effective control to those who would allow concerns about video gaming and porn in libraries to look the other way as cuts are made and rhetoric ratchets up. So buck up &#8220;oh poor victime me because I&#8217;m a politically incorrect&#8221; conservatives and mis-educated tea-partiers and take ownership of the cultural catastrophe you are creating in the aftermath of the financial catastrophe the strip mining of the Bush years has left us. When this political movement takes power over the next 2 national elections, watch your gubmint jobs go the way of the dodo and glory in your triumph!</p>
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		<title>By: Post Postmodern Librarian</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/comment-page-1/#comment-9043</link>
		<dc:creator>Post Postmodern Librarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 08:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/05/26/conservatives-and-libraries/#comment-9043</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow talk about vitriol writing I am amazed that some of the writing here.  I am not a tea party member, because like the AL, I am a conservative, not a libertarian, but the attacks here show the biggest problem with todays political spectrum and system.  Neither side knows how to behave better then children with name calling.  We are suppose to be educated people (ok we have MLIS I know I know) with some idea of critical thought and open mindedness.  Until we start giving credit to our opponents and learn to tolerate ideas that are different  this country will never change.  I am giving you the big group up speech. Learn that both sides have strong political thought supporting their ideas.  Do what librarians should do go read a book! Especially one NOT written by a TV gas bag.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow talk about vitriol writing I am amazed that some of the writing here.  I am not a tea party member, because like the AL, I am a conservative, not a libertarian, but the attacks here show the biggest problem with todays political spectrum and system.  Neither side knows how to behave better then children with name calling.  We are suppose to be educated people (ok we have MLIS I know I know) with some idea of critical thought and open mindedness.  Until we start giving credit to our opponents and learn to tolerate ideas that are different  this country will never change.  I am giving you the big group up speech. Learn that both sides have strong political thought supporting their ideas.  Do what librarians should do go read a book! Especially one NOT written by a TV gas bag.</p>
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