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	<title>Comments on: Incest Porn @ Your Bookstore</title>
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	<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/12/27/incest-porn-your-bookstore/</link>
	<description>Whatever It Is, I&#039;m Against It</description>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/12/27/incest-porn-your-bookstore/comment-page-1/#comment-25710</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jan 2011 05:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=559#comment-25710</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You are completely missing the point of her complaint, and others who have experienced similar treatment from Amazon in the past year.

Amazon&#039;s terms of service are very, very vague when it comes to what they consider &quot;obscene.&quot;  When the Kindle ebook phenomenon started, erotica authors walked into it blindly, trusting that Amazon would let them know if they crossed some invisible line.  

For the last few years, Amazon has allowed incest erotica that depicts consensual relations between adults.  It is one of the most popular types of erotica on that service, in fact, along with BDSM and paranormal erotica.  

Suddenly, out of the blue, Amazon jumped in and removed a number of incest erotica fiction ebooks overnight.  They also (initially) disappeared from the Kindles of people who had purchased them but were storing them in Amazon&#039;s cloud.  There was no explanation from Amazon, though a few days later they did restore the ebooks to those who had already purchased them, again with virtually no explanation.

A few days later, the same thing was done to a handful of male/male erotica titles that had the word &quot;rape&quot; in the title.  At least one of these titles didn&#039;t even focus on rape, and didn&#039;t present it in an erotic context at all.  Again, no explanation to the writers, customers, or e-publishers.

Earlier in the year, Amazon had stripped sales rankings of hundreds of gay and lesbian books (not necessarily erotica), with no explanation.  When things exploded in the press, they restored the rankings, claiming that it was a &quot;glitch.&quot;  

Amazon can sell what it wants, and set the terms of service to whatever it likes.  That isn&#039;t the issue.  The issue is that they won&#039;t define what is and is not acceptable, and have developed a habit of suddenly removing (or stripping sales rankings) of books en masse in unannounced overnight sweeps, with no explanation ever given to anyone.  LGBT and erotica authors literally have no idea of how to stay within the guidelines, because there really don&#039;t appear to be any. 

Ms. Kitt (and others) have stated publicly that their main issue is not being told why their specific books were pulled, particularly when many others with similar themes (including some that are far more explicit) were not touched.  

Ms. Kitt is one of the most successful authors in independent erotic ebooks, with very good sales over a period of years and a definite following.  Most of her erotic fiction doesn&#039;t deal with incest at all.  She (and other authors) simply want to know where the boundaries are, and why the invisible rules are being applied in a haphazard fashion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are completely missing the point of her complaint, and others who have experienced similar treatment from Amazon in the past year.</p>
<p>Amazon&#8217;s terms of service are very, very vague when it comes to what they consider &#8220;obscene.&#8221;  When the Kindle ebook phenomenon started, erotica authors walked into it blindly, trusting that Amazon would let them know if they crossed some invisible line.  </p>
<p>For the last few years, Amazon has allowed incest erotica that depicts consensual relations between adults.  It is one of the most popular types of erotica on that service, in fact, along with BDSM and paranormal erotica.  </p>
<p>Suddenly, out of the blue, Amazon jumped in and removed a number of incest erotica fiction ebooks overnight.  They also (initially) disappeared from the Kindles of people who had purchased them but were storing them in Amazon&#8217;s cloud.  There was no explanation from Amazon, though a few days later they did restore the ebooks to those who had already purchased them, again with virtually no explanation.</p>
<p>A few days later, the same thing was done to a handful of male/male erotica titles that had the word &#8220;rape&#8221; in the title.  At least one of these titles didn&#8217;t even focus on rape, and didn&#8217;t present it in an erotic context at all.  Again, no explanation to the writers, customers, or e-publishers.</p>
<p>Earlier in the year, Amazon had stripped sales rankings of hundreds of gay and lesbian books (not necessarily erotica), with no explanation.  When things exploded in the press, they restored the rankings, claiming that it was a &#8220;glitch.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Amazon can sell what it wants, and set the terms of service to whatever it likes.  That isn&#8217;t the issue.  The issue is that they won&#8217;t define what is and is not acceptable, and have developed a habit of suddenly removing (or stripping sales rankings) of books en masse in unannounced overnight sweeps, with no explanation ever given to anyone.  LGBT and erotica authors literally have no idea of how to stay within the guidelines, because there really don&#8217;t appear to be any. </p>
<p>Ms. Kitt (and others) have stated publicly that their main issue is not being told why their specific books were pulled, particularly when many others with similar themes (including some that are far more explicit) were not touched.  </p>
<p>Ms. Kitt is one of the most successful authors in independent erotic ebooks, with very good sales over a period of years and a definite following.  Most of her erotic fiction doesn&#8217;t deal with incest at all.  She (and other authors) simply want to know where the boundaries are, and why the invisible rules are being applied in a haphazard fashion.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Kat</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/12/27/incest-porn-your-bookstore/comment-page-1/#comment-25361</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Kat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Dec 2010 04:40:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=559#comment-25361</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seems to be a slippery slope on either the right or the left...just how did we get ourselves over this barrel, anyways???]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to be a slippery slope on either the right or the left&#8230;just how did we get ourselves over this barrel, anyways???</p>
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		<title>By: Techserving You</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/12/27/incest-porn-your-bookstore/comment-page-1/#comment-25354</link>
		<dc:creator>Techserving You</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Dec 2010 03:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=559#comment-25354</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, some people get off on pictures of kids in catalogs, and others get off on crucifixion, but obviously the points of those things are not to be &quot;erotic.&quot;  Libraries usually carry The Hotel New Hampshire, which includes scenes of incest.  Newspapers will fairly graphically describe Elizabeth Smart&#039;s ordeal, being kidnapped as a 14-year-old, chained up, and raped on a daily basis by a grown man.  There is a difference between items which may happen to turn on certain types, and items which describe illegal and exploitative acts towards children with the intent of being &quot;erotic.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, some people get off on pictures of kids in catalogs, and others get off on crucifixion, but obviously the points of those things are not to be &#8220;erotic.&#8221;  Libraries usually carry The Hotel New Hampshire, which includes scenes of incest.  Newspapers will fairly graphically describe Elizabeth Smart&#8217;s ordeal, being kidnapped as a 14-year-old, chained up, and raped on a daily basis by a grown man.  There is a difference between items which may happen to turn on certain types, and items which describe illegal and exploitative acts towards children with the intent of being &#8220;erotic.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: MIghty Kasey</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/12/27/incest-porn-your-bookstore/comment-page-1/#comment-25135</link>
		<dc:creator>MIghty Kasey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2010 17:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=559#comment-25135</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Many of us may want to condemn this material, but perhaps we should remember our ancient history.  In 1979 and the early &#039;80s most every American Library carried Flowers in the Attic, Petals on the Wind and the succeeding titles in this series.  These books included incest between an adolescent brother and his sister.  They were censored in several libraries but the rest of us provided them to a huge number of patrons.  There were 85 million copies of Flowers in the Attic in print at that time. Maybe most readers did not consider them to be erotic or prurient.  But, I remember the scene in the movie Clockwork Orange (which many libraries also stock) where the villain is reading the crucifixion scenes in the bible while &quot;getting off&quot; on the sadism and masochism.  The Sears catalog of boys clothing can be erotic for pedophiles.  We never REALLY know why people read anything. If we did, we should consider censoring everything.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many of us may want to condemn this material, but perhaps we should remember our ancient history.  In 1979 and the early &#8217;80s most every American Library carried Flowers in the Attic, Petals on the Wind and the succeeding titles in this series.  These books included incest between an adolescent brother and his sister.  They were censored in several libraries but the rest of us provided them to a huge number of patrons.  There were 85 million copies of Flowers in the Attic in print at that time. Maybe most readers did not consider them to be erotic or prurient.  But, I remember the scene in the movie Clockwork Orange (which many libraries also stock) where the villain is reading the crucifixion scenes in the bible while &#8220;getting off&#8221; on the sadism and masochism.  The Sears catalog of boys clothing can be erotic for pedophiles.  We never REALLY know why people read anything. If we did, we should consider censoring everything.</p>
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		<title>By: Techserving You</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/12/27/incest-porn-your-bookstore/comment-page-1/#comment-25044</link>
		<dc:creator>Techserving You</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 19:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=559#comment-25044</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It looks like some posters really need to brush up on the law.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks like some posters really need to brush up on the law.</p>
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		<title>By: SafeLibraries</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/12/27/incest-porn-your-bookstore/comment-page-1/#comment-25042</link>
		<dc:creator>SafeLibraries</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 19:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=559#comment-25042</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The ALA is already a de facto defender of child pornography on library computers....&quot;  If anyone wants any evidence of that, let me know.  We can ask that Holyoke, MA, library director who covered up such a crime according to her own employee, the complaining librarian.  Or the patron who was kicked out of the library for reporting it.  Or the library employee fired for reporting it. Etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The ALA is already a de facto defender of child pornography on library computers&#8230;.&#8221;  If anyone wants any evidence of that, let me know.  We can ask that Holyoke, MA, library director who covered up such a crime according to her own employee, the complaining librarian.  Or the patron who was kicked out of the library for reporting it.  Or the library employee fired for reporting it. Etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Morse</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/12/27/incest-porn-your-bookstore/comment-page-1/#comment-25041</link>
		<dc:creator>Morse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 19:20:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=559#comment-25041</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[hapax, there might be laws about public accommodation in public places, but there are no laws that require a publisher to publish something they don&#039;t want to publish. Amazon&#039;s terms of service for everything, including apparently their publishing service, are vague enough to let them do what they want, so it would be difficult to even claim they had violated a publishing contract.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hapax, there might be laws about public accommodation in public places, but there are no laws that require a publisher to publish something they don&#8217;t want to publish. Amazon&#8217;s terms of service for everything, including apparently their publishing service, are vague enough to let them do what they want, so it would be difficult to even claim they had violated a publishing contract.</p>
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		<title>By: Otto</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/12/27/incest-porn-your-bookstore/comment-page-1/#comment-25040</link>
		<dc:creator>Otto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 19:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=559#comment-25040</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[After entering the term &quot;incest&quot; into the amazon search engine, I found that Amazon doesn&#039;t seem to have a shortage of literature on the subject.  For that matter, entering in a variety of other terms, ranging from sex torture to fake snuff films and other questionable sex-related material, the search engine seems to find plenty of material (including VHS! amazing! I thought they would have disappeared).  Now, while I have a hard time equating business decisions to not carry a particular item with censorship, I would point out that Amazon does have some peculiar thinking if it decides that one item is objectionable but others almost exactly the same content are not.  Given that I do not remember any previous similar decisions, I believe that it&#039;s likely that someone in a small office somewhere in the Amazon headquarters took offense to this and somehow managed to roll the change into their policy.  A disappointing conspiracy theory to be sure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After entering the term &#8220;incest&#8221; into the amazon search engine, I found that Amazon doesn&#8217;t seem to have a shortage of literature on the subject.  For that matter, entering in a variety of other terms, ranging from sex torture to fake snuff films and other questionable sex-related material, the search engine seems to find plenty of material (including VHS! amazing! I thought they would have disappeared).  Now, while I have a hard time equating business decisions to not carry a particular item with censorship, I would point out that Amazon does have some peculiar thinking if it decides that one item is objectionable but others almost exactly the same content are not.  Given that I do not remember any previous similar decisions, I believe that it&#8217;s likely that someone in a small office somewhere in the Amazon headquarters took offense to this and somehow managed to roll the change into their policy.  A disappointing conspiracy theory to be sure.</p>
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		<title>By: hapax</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/12/27/incest-porn-your-bookstore/comment-page-1/#comment-25038</link>
		<dc:creator>hapax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 18:45:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=559#comment-25038</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[FNL, just because a store puts up that sign, doesn&#039;t mean they actually have that right.  Look up &quot;public accomodation&quot; and &quot;discrimination.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FNL, just because a store puts up that sign, doesn&#8217;t mean they actually have that right.  Look up &#8220;public accomodation&#8221; and &#8220;discrimination.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Your Friendly Neighborhood Librarian</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2010/12/27/incest-porn-your-bookstore/comment-page-1/#comment-25036</link>
		<dc:creator>Your Friendly Neighborhood Librarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 18:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=559#comment-25036</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone&quot; - a sign I have seen in stores many a time over the years.

When the federal government destroys all copies of a text/video/audio creation and prevents all access to it, that is censorship. When a private company says &#039;piss off&#039; to an &#039;alternative erotic literature purveyor&#039;, that is a business decision.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone&#8221; &#8211; a sign I have seen in stores many a time over the years.</p>
<p>When the federal government destroys all copies of a text/video/audio creation and prevents all access to it, that is censorship. When a private company says &#8216;piss off&#8217; to an &#8216;alternative erotic literature purveyor&#8217;, that is a business decision.</p>
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