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	<title>Comments on: Women and Wikipedia</title>
	<atom:link href="http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/02/07/women-and-wikipedia/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/02/07/women-and-wikipedia/</link>
	<description>Whatever It Is, I&#039;m Against It</description>
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		<title>By: KidLib</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/02/07/women-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-30037</link>
		<dc:creator>KidLib</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Feb 2011 23:55:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=655#comment-30037</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Techserving You&lt;/i&gt;--Using it as a start point is really good advice in a lot of places.  It&#039;s especially good, as AL says, on pop culture issues that no one else covers, because the people who are obsessed have a forum to put down all the details.  It&#039;s a much faster way to get, say, all the titles in a series than going through library databases.

It&#039;s also fabulous for public domain graphics.  I use it a lot for that.

The women vs. men business?  I don&#039;t think it makes any practical difference in content, for all the reasons AL mentions.  Having dabbled for a month or so, maybe it&#039;s that the editorial culture is a little, how to put it... pushy?  Confrontational, I guess.  That tends to be a milieu where men feel more comfortable than women, for whatever reason.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Techserving You</i>&#8211;Using it as a start point is really good advice in a lot of places.  It&#8217;s especially good, as AL says, on pop culture issues that no one else covers, because the people who are obsessed have a forum to put down all the details.  It&#8217;s a much faster way to get, say, all the titles in a series than going through library databases.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also fabulous for public domain graphics.  I use it a lot for that.</p>
<p>The women vs. men business?  I don&#8217;t think it makes any practical difference in content, for all the reasons AL mentions.  Having dabbled for a month or so, maybe it&#8217;s that the editorial culture is a little, how to put it&#8230; pushy?  Confrontational, I guess.  That tends to be a milieu where men feel more comfortable than women, for whatever reason.</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel Storm</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/02/07/women-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-29693</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Storm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Feb 2011 19:38:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=655#comment-29693</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I suppose this is a little besides the point but I find the assumptions about male/female interests and behavior a bit odd. Maybe this says more about gender stereotypes than the Wikipedia statistic. I just don&#039;t fit into the &quot;Sex and the City-friendship bracelet-Facebook, not Wikipedia&quot; box, I&#039;m sure plenty of women out there would agree.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose this is a little besides the point but I find the assumptions about male/female interests and behavior a bit odd. Maybe this says more about gender stereotypes than the Wikipedia statistic. I just don&#8217;t fit into the &#8220;Sex and the City-friendship bracelet-Facebook, not Wikipedia&#8221; box, I&#8217;m sure plenty of women out there would agree.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyle Blake Smythers</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/02/07/women-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-29691</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyle Blake Smythers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Feb 2011 18:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=655#comment-29691</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agree with many above: I would not cite Wikipedia as a source if I were an academic or writing something for publication; however, when I go to Wikipedia I am doing so for one reason: to get INFORMATION for myself. To fill in some gap in my own personal knowledge.

In particular, it is invaluable for understanding Internet slang and shorthand, particularly of that oft-impenetrable acronym variety.  The first time I saw NSFW I thought the writer was trying to refer to &quot;single white female&quot; and had made a typo.  Wiki gave me the answer with blinding speed.  I suppose there are other reference sources that cover this area, but Wiki is quick and I know how to get to it because I have it bookmarked.  There you have it.

It&#039;s also superb for pop culture of the manga/comic books/Star Trek ilk.  In short, it TELLS ME WHAT I WANT TO KNOW WITHOUT A LOT OF FUSS AND SEARCHING.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree with many above: I would not cite Wikipedia as a source if I were an academic or writing something for publication; however, when I go to Wikipedia I am doing so for one reason: to get INFORMATION for myself. To fill in some gap in my own personal knowledge.</p>
<p>In particular, it is invaluable for understanding Internet slang and shorthand, particularly of that oft-impenetrable acronym variety.  The first time I saw NSFW I thought the writer was trying to refer to &#8220;single white female&#8221; and had made a typo.  Wiki gave me the answer with blinding speed.  I suppose there are other reference sources that cover this area, but Wiki is quick and I know how to get to it because I have it bookmarked.  There you have it.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also superb for pop culture of the manga/comic books/Star Trek ilk.  In short, it TELLS ME WHAT I WANT TO KNOW WITHOUT A LOT OF FUSS AND SEARCHING.</p>
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		<title>By: Spekkio</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/02/07/women-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-29683</link>
		<dc:creator>Spekkio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Feb 2011 17:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=655#comment-29683</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Refusing to use Wikipedia - or take it seriously - makes about as much sense as standing in the middle of a recently-finished highway to prevent its construction.

I found this interesting:
http://microbiology.se/2011/02/01/underpinning-wikipedias-wisdom/

The argument here - and elsewhere - is that instead of railing against the new dominant force in reference, academia should be helping to make it better. And to do that, you need to provide incentives to academics (including librarians) to do so.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Refusing to use Wikipedia &#8211; or take it seriously &#8211; makes about as much sense as standing in the middle of a recently-finished highway to prevent its construction.</p>
<p>I found this interesting:<br />
<a href="http://microbiology.se/2011/02/01/underpinning-wikipedias-wisdom/" rel="nofollow">http://microbiology.se/2011/02/01/underpinning-wikipedias-wisdom/</a></p>
<p>The argument here &#8211; and elsewhere &#8211; is that instead of railing against the new dominant force in reference, academia should be helping to make it better. And to do that, you need to provide incentives to academics (including librarians) to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Techserving You</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/02/07/women-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-29678</link>
		<dc:creator>Techserving You</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Feb 2011 16:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=655#comment-29678</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Whoops - typo in my last paragraph... put the cursor in the wrong spot when editing.  It should read:

Librarians at my library finally came around to this way of thinking when we admitted that WE often resorted to Wikipedia. Quite often, a student would come to the reference desk with a question about a subject area for which we had no background.  What would we do before advising the student? Google the subject, which would almost always bring up a Wikipedia article, which we’d read. Then, we’d have a better idea of what search terms to use in our catalog and databases, what alternative terms we should try, what broader or narrower topic we should search. Bad reference skills? Nope – very efficient.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoops &#8211; typo in my last paragraph&#8230; put the cursor in the wrong spot when editing.  It should read:</p>
<p>Librarians at my library finally came around to this way of thinking when we admitted that WE often resorted to Wikipedia. Quite often, a student would come to the reference desk with a question about a subject area for which we had no background.  What would we do before advising the student? Google the subject, which would almost always bring up a Wikipedia article, which we’d read. Then, we’d have a better idea of what search terms to use in our catalog and databases, what alternative terms we should try, what broader or narrower topic we should search. Bad reference skills? Nope – very efficient.</p>
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		<title>By: Techserving You</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/02/07/women-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-29677</link>
		<dc:creator>Techserving You</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Feb 2011 16:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=655#comment-29677</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Will Manley-

Wikipedia is certainly of limited use (and always will be... I&#039;m not sure there&#039;s anything that isn&#039;t of limited use.)  But, many of the complaints about it which were true several years ago are not true... or not &quot;as true&quot; today.  It actually has very detailed and correct articles on a wide range of topics - so much so that at my library we have switched from telling kids that Wikipedia is evil, to telling them that it can be a great starting point for research.  Just know that not everything will always be correct (and often, articles are flagged and that will tip you off) and they can&#039;t base their research on Wikipedia articles.  But for a basic orientation to a topic, including giving students an idea of an area of a broad topic on which they might like to focus, it&#039;s often just as useful as a reference book... and sometimes more so.

There are many well-crafted articles with lengthy lists of citations.  There are other well-crafted articles which, from what I can tell, are blatant examples of plagiarism... but they doesn&#039;t make the content any less accurate.

I think that rather than telling students &quot;you can&#039;t use Wikipedia&quot; we should be teaching them how to evaluate the content, the references, flags, etc. to determine legitimate content, just as we do when teaching them to evaluate Google results, or even paper sources.  Librarians at my library finally came around to this way of thinking when we admitted that WE often resorted to Wikipedia.  Quite often, a student would come to the reference desk with a question about a subject area for advising the student?  Google the subject, which would almost always bring up a Wikipedia article, which we&#039;d read.  Then, we&#039;d have a better idea of what search terms to use in our catalog and databases, what alternative terms we should try, what broader or narrower topic we should search.  Bad reference skills?  Nope - very efficient.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will Manley-</p>
<p>Wikipedia is certainly of limited use (and always will be&#8230; I&#8217;m not sure there&#8217;s anything that isn&#8217;t of limited use.)  But, many of the complaints about it which were true several years ago are not true&#8230; or not &#8220;as true&#8221; today.  It actually has very detailed and correct articles on a wide range of topics &#8211; so much so that at my library we have switched from telling kids that Wikipedia is evil, to telling them that it can be a great starting point for research.  Just know that not everything will always be correct (and often, articles are flagged and that will tip you off) and they can&#8217;t base their research on Wikipedia articles.  But for a basic orientation to a topic, including giving students an idea of an area of a broad topic on which they might like to focus, it&#8217;s often just as useful as a reference book&#8230; and sometimes more so.</p>
<p>There are many well-crafted articles with lengthy lists of citations.  There are other well-crafted articles which, from what I can tell, are blatant examples of plagiarism&#8230; but they doesn&#8217;t make the content any less accurate.</p>
<p>I think that rather than telling students &#8220;you can&#8217;t use Wikipedia&#8221; we should be teaching them how to evaluate the content, the references, flags, etc. to determine legitimate content, just as we do when teaching them to evaluate Google results, or even paper sources.  Librarians at my library finally came around to this way of thinking when we admitted that WE often resorted to Wikipedia.  Quite often, a student would come to the reference desk with a question about a subject area for advising the student?  Google the subject, which would almost always bring up a Wikipedia article, which we&#8217;d read.  Then, we&#8217;d have a better idea of what search terms to use in our catalog and databases, what alternative terms we should try, what broader or narrower topic we should search.  Bad reference skills?  Nope &#8211; very efficient.</p>
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		<title>By: SafeLibraries</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/02/07/women-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-29622</link>
		<dc:creator>SafeLibraries</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Feb 2011 04:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=655#comment-29622</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[AL said, &quot;Criticism from librarians is particularly interesting….&quot;  You bet it is.  The ALA regularly uses Wikipedia for propaganda purposes, and it does so in an underhanded manner that is disgraceful and should result in legal action taken against the ALA.

Look at the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Judith_Krug&amp;dir=prev&amp;action=history&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Judith Krug page history&lt;/a&gt;, for example.  The Judith Krug page was created on 6 July 2005 by Jonathan Kelley who worked for Judith Krug.  In violation of Wikipedia policy against using Wikipedia as a soapbox for advertising purposes, it was a word for word copy of the ALA&#039;s promotional material.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Judith_Krug&amp;action=historysubmit&amp;diff=18265346&amp;oldid=18262966&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt; is what Jonathan Kelley added.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.copacommission.org/meetings/hearing3/krug.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt; are the exact same words the ALA used for its own benefit.  Only when I got involved starting 5 October 2005 did the page start to become compliant with Wikipedia policy, and I had to fight Deborah Caldwell-Stone, another person who worked for Judith Krug, every step of the way.

Then Caldwell-Stone went on to use Wikipedia to promote ALA pecuniary interests and astroturf anonymously for George Soros and Free Press on the issue of net neutrality.  See &lt;a href=&quot;http://safelibraries.blogspot.com/2010/12/ala-pushes-net-neutrality-on-wikipedia.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ALA Pushes Net Neutrality on Wikipedia; Political and Pecuniary Interests Promoted Anonymously by ALA Office for Intellectual Freedom May Violate Ethical and Tax Codes&lt;/a&gt;.  Members dues paid for this.  Only later did George Soros essentially buy the services of the ALA&#039;s OIF with about half a million dollars.

What a disgrace that a Deputy Director of the Office for Intellectual Freedom would lower herself and the ALA in such a fashion.  An ironic disgrace at that--&quot;intellectual freedom&quot;?  What a further disgrace that the ALA has taken no disciplinary action against her for her actions.  That indicates complicity.

Of course, all this is my opinion.  ;)  But &quot;criticism from librarians is particularly interesting&quot;?  You bet it is.  In reality, the ALA thanks its lucky stars it has such an effective means to propagandize on behalf of itself and its liberal causes that have little to do with libraries.

Gee, I wonder if that is why the ALA apparently started the effort that led to my being blocked from editing at Wikipedia for blogging about Caldwell-Stone&#039;s anonymous propagandizing on Wikipedia.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AL said, &#8220;Criticism from librarians is particularly interesting….&#8221;  You bet it is.  The ALA regularly uses Wikipedia for propaganda purposes, and it does so in an underhanded manner that is disgraceful and should result in legal action taken against the ALA.</p>
<p>Look at the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Judith_Krug&amp;dir=prev&amp;action=history" rel="nofollow">Judith Krug page history</a>, for example.  The Judith Krug page was created on 6 July 2005 by Jonathan Kelley who worked for Judith Krug.  In violation of Wikipedia policy against using Wikipedia as a soapbox for advertising purposes, it was a word for word copy of the ALA&#8217;s promotional material.  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Judith_Krug&amp;action=historysubmit&amp;diff=18265346&amp;oldid=18262966" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is what Jonathan Kelley added.  <a href="http://www.copacommission.org/meetings/hearing3/krug.pdf" rel="nofollow">Here</a> are the exact same words the ALA used for its own benefit.  Only when I got involved starting 5 October 2005 did the page start to become compliant with Wikipedia policy, and I had to fight Deborah Caldwell-Stone, another person who worked for Judith Krug, every step of the way.</p>
<p>Then Caldwell-Stone went on to use Wikipedia to promote ALA pecuniary interests and astroturf anonymously for George Soros and Free Press on the issue of net neutrality.  See <a href="http://safelibraries.blogspot.com/2010/12/ala-pushes-net-neutrality-on-wikipedia.html" rel="nofollow">ALA Pushes Net Neutrality on Wikipedia; Political and Pecuniary Interests Promoted Anonymously by ALA Office for Intellectual Freedom May Violate Ethical and Tax Codes</a>.  Members dues paid for this.  Only later did George Soros essentially buy the services of the ALA&#8217;s OIF with about half a million dollars.</p>
<p>What a disgrace that a Deputy Director of the Office for Intellectual Freedom would lower herself and the ALA in such a fashion.  An ironic disgrace at that&#8211;&#8221;intellectual freedom&#8221;?  What a further disgrace that the ALA has taken no disciplinary action against her for her actions.  That indicates complicity.</p>
<p>Of course, all this is my opinion.  ;)  But &#8220;criticism from librarians is particularly interesting&#8221;?  You bet it is.  In reality, the ALA thanks its lucky stars it has such an effective means to propagandize on behalf of itself and its liberal causes that have little to do with libraries.</p>
<p>Gee, I wonder if that is why the ALA apparently started the effort that led to my being blocked from editing at Wikipedia for blogging about Caldwell-Stone&#8217;s anonymous propagandizing on Wikipedia.</p>
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		<title>By: librarEwoman</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/02/07/women-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-29608</link>
		<dc:creator>librarEwoman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Feb 2011 00:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=655#comment-29608</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with Randal about this. Wikipedia is useful as a learning tool. I wouldn&#039;t cite it as a source in an academic paper or a work-related report, but that does not mean I don&#039;t consult it for information on a casual basis. When I want more detailed or accurate information, I seek other sources, in addition to Wikipedia.

As far as the reason why women don&#039;t contribute to Wikipedia nearly to the extent that men do, I think it has to do with the fact that women use the Internet much more for social networking purposes than for research purposes. This does not mean that women don&#039;t use the Internet to get information, but that they exchange information in more socially-oriented contexts (Facebook, blogs, Twitter, etc.).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Randal about this. Wikipedia is useful as a learning tool. I wouldn&#8217;t cite it as a source in an academic paper or a work-related report, but that does not mean I don&#8217;t consult it for information on a casual basis. When I want more detailed or accurate information, I seek other sources, in addition to Wikipedia.</p>
<p>As far as the reason why women don&#8217;t contribute to Wikipedia nearly to the extent that men do, I think it has to do with the fact that women use the Internet much more for social networking purposes than for research purposes. This does not mean that women don&#8217;t use the Internet to get information, but that they exchange information in more socially-oriented contexts (Facebook, blogs, Twitter, etc.).</p>
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		<title>By: Randal Powell</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/02/07/women-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-29596</link>
		<dc:creator>Randal Powell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Feb 2011 23:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=655#comment-29596</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think that the overrepresentation of men contributing to Wikipedia may be due to gender preferences.  Men tend to read more non-fiction, while women tend to read more fiction – or so I’ve been told.  I would expect websites dealing with fiction to have a greater representation of women.  Come to think of it, women could make major contributions to Wikipedia by filling in the gaps in fiction coverage!

As far as Wikipedia being relevant, it is and always will be.  Go ahead and get over it.  I use Wikipedia all of the time, and think that it is an excellent &quot;learning tool&quot;.  If I were doing professional and/or academic work, I would seek out authoritative sources because Wikipedia is not perfect (come to think of it, neither are the authoritative sources, but never mind).  If people view Wikipedia as a learning tool instead of a work tool, I think that they will understand the benefits and disadvantages of using it better.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the overrepresentation of men contributing to Wikipedia may be due to gender preferences.  Men tend to read more non-fiction, while women tend to read more fiction – or so I’ve been told.  I would expect websites dealing with fiction to have a greater representation of women.  Come to think of it, women could make major contributions to Wikipedia by filling in the gaps in fiction coverage!</p>
<p>As far as Wikipedia being relevant, it is and always will be.  Go ahead and get over it.  I use Wikipedia all of the time, and think that it is an excellent &#8220;learning tool&#8221;.  If I were doing professional and/or academic work, I would seek out authoritative sources because Wikipedia is not perfect (come to think of it, neither are the authoritative sources, but never mind).  If people view Wikipedia as a learning tool instead of a work tool, I think that they will understand the benefits and disadvantages of using it better.</p>
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		<title>By: Retiring Librarian</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/02/07/women-and-wikipedia/comment-page-1/#comment-29590</link>
		<dc:creator>Retiring Librarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Feb 2011 22:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=655#comment-29590</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I Don&#039;t use Wikipedia;
Don&#039;t suggest, recommend or encourage use of Wikipedia;
Don&#039;t care what Wikipedia says or doesn&#039;t say;
Don&#039;t understand why anyone would bother writing about Wikipedia, including me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I Don&#8217;t use Wikipedia;<br />
Don&#8217;t suggest, recommend or encourage use of Wikipedia;<br />
Don&#8217;t care what Wikipedia says or doesn&#8217;t say;<br />
Don&#8217;t understand why anyone would bother writing about Wikipedia, including me.</p>
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