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	<title>Comments on: Library Science Majors as Unemployed as High School Dropouts</title>
	<atom:link href="http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/11/14/library-science-majors-as-unemployed-as-high-school-dropouts/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/11/14/library-science-majors-as-unemployed-as-high-school-dropouts/</link>
	<description>Whatever It Is, I&#039;m Against It</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 09:22:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/11/14/library-science-majors-as-unemployed-as-high-school-dropouts/comment-page-1/#comment-67607</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2011 20:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1151#comment-67607</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree Spencer. The fundamentals could easily and well be learned in a bachelors degree program, but nobody who&#039;s in the power seat within the profession wants to admit it, and thereby diminish their own degree. Somebody with courage and vision is going to have to bite the bullet and advocate for a normal educational structure within the profession – bachelor, masters, doctorate. Advancement is linked to education. Every other profession does it, so why not librarians?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree Spencer. The fundamentals could easily and well be learned in a bachelors degree program, but nobody who&#8217;s in the power seat within the profession wants to admit it, and thereby diminish their own degree. Somebody with courage and vision is going to have to bite the bullet and advocate for a normal educational structure within the profession – bachelor, masters, doctorate. Advancement is linked to education. Every other profession does it, so why not librarians?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/11/14/library-science-majors-as-unemployed-as-high-school-dropouts/comment-page-1/#comment-67603</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2011 20:38:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1151#comment-67603</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[AMEN!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AMEN!!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/11/14/library-science-majors-as-unemployed-as-high-school-dropouts/comment-page-1/#comment-67601</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2011 20:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1151#comment-67601</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Joyce,
Sorry to be late to the party, but I totally empathize with your daughter, and you. What ALA should be advocating is a bachelor degree as entry level into the profession. There is no VALID reason for a masters degree to be entry level for the librarian profession. 

I had numerous responses to my own Blog post &lt;a href=&quot;https://21stcenturylibrary.wordpress.com/2011/12/02/library-science-ranks-4-in-highest-unemployment/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Library Science Ranks #4 in Highest Unemployment&lt;/a&gt;, but none have any valid reason to reject a bachelor degree as the required entry level. It&#039;s just been that way for over 100 years, so why change.  Maybe change is necessary to address the needs for more technically competent librarians within the profession, inadequacies within the degree programs, and changing demands on librarians, not to mention changing library missions and operations, and maybe a more fair and compatible educational advancement structure.

Although, there are lesser degrees and certifications for lesser positions within the profession. Library Technician is a big one for an associate degree, or even bachelor. You just can&#039;t get hired as a &quot;librarian&quot; without a masters degree – from an ALA accredited program. Granted times are hard right now with many libraries not only closing but cutting staff and services. Gee, this sounds like a GREAT time to restructure the library school education system. It does seem like ALA would be in the forefront of that rather than reinforcing the fortress.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joyce,<br />
Sorry to be late to the party, but I totally empathize with your daughter, and you. What ALA should be advocating is a bachelor degree as entry level into the profession. There is no VALID reason for a masters degree to be entry level for the librarian profession. </p>
<p>I had numerous responses to my own Blog post <a href="https://21stcenturylibrary.wordpress.com/2011/12/02/library-science-ranks-4-in-highest-unemployment/" rel="nofollow">Library Science Ranks #4 in Highest Unemployment</a>, but none have any valid reason to reject a bachelor degree as the required entry level. It&#8217;s just been that way for over 100 years, so why change.  Maybe change is necessary to address the needs for more technically competent librarians within the profession, inadequacies within the degree programs, and changing demands on librarians, not to mention changing library missions and operations, and maybe a more fair and compatible educational advancement structure.</p>
<p>Although, there are lesser degrees and certifications for lesser positions within the profession. Library Technician is a big one for an associate degree, or even bachelor. You just can&#8217;t get hired as a &#8220;librarian&#8221; without a masters degree – from an ALA accredited program. Granted times are hard right now with many libraries not only closing but cutting staff and services. Gee, this sounds like a GREAT time to restructure the library school education system. It does seem like ALA would be in the forefront of that rather than reinforcing the fortress.</p>
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		<title>By: NoahJon Marshall</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/11/14/library-science-majors-as-unemployed-as-high-school-dropouts/comment-page-1/#comment-64569</link>
		<dc:creator>NoahJon Marshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2011 17:41:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1151#comment-64569</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Most movers and shakers/visionaries/innovators/game-changers/&quot;successful&quot; people in their respective industries got there by going against the conventional grain or having really innovative thoughts that turned into actions, not for the sake of being different or difficult, but because they recognized things could work better and more could be accomplished by challenging the general order and boiler-plate logic. So, really, I see the current library landscape, curmudgeon-filled break rooms and tired conversations as a great thing, as it makes the opportunity to be part of that innovation that much easier because most of the industry is too far down in self-pity to be proactive, enlightened thinkers. It is like if your plane gets delayed; just think-if the plan took off on time, maybe you would have crashed! There&#039;s always a silver lining and always opportunity; it is the perspective that matters. When colleagues and student peers bemoan everything libraries, I smile, stay quiet and check another person off the list of someone who I will be competing with for better employment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most movers and shakers/visionaries/innovators/game-changers/&#8221;successful&#8221; people in their respective industries got there by going against the conventional grain or having really innovative thoughts that turned into actions, not for the sake of being different or difficult, but because they recognized things could work better and more could be accomplished by challenging the general order and boiler-plate logic. So, really, I see the current library landscape, curmudgeon-filled break rooms and tired conversations as a great thing, as it makes the opportunity to be part of that innovation that much easier because most of the industry is too far down in self-pity to be proactive, enlightened thinkers. It is like if your plane gets delayed; just think-if the plan took off on time, maybe you would have crashed! There&#8217;s always a silver lining and always opportunity; it is the perspective that matters. When colleagues and student peers bemoan everything libraries, I smile, stay quiet and check another person off the list of someone who I will be competing with for better employment.</p>
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		<title>By: library_yeti</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/11/14/library-science-majors-as-unemployed-as-high-school-dropouts/comment-page-1/#comment-63182</link>
		<dc:creator>library_yeti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Dec 2011 00:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1151#comment-63182</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I mentored a library school student (of an online program) recently, and I will think twice about ever doing it again. She asked to &quot;observe&quot; reference transactions for two hours. What she did, much to my chagrin, was actively participate in reference interviews, continually butting-in while I was trying to help students. She was a loose cannon. Sadly, I suspect that she&#039;ll be one of the unemployed that will add to the grim statistics for our profession. I want to help mentor students, but if they prove to be a liability, I&#039;m out...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mentored a library school student (of an online program) recently, and I will think twice about ever doing it again. She asked to &#8220;observe&#8221; reference transactions for two hours. What she did, much to my chagrin, was actively participate in reference interviews, continually butting-in while I was trying to help students. She was a loose cannon. Sadly, I suspect that she&#8217;ll be one of the unemployed that will add to the grim statistics for our profession. I want to help mentor students, but if they prove to be a liability, I&#8217;m out&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lib Lover</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/11/14/library-science-majors-as-unemployed-as-high-school-dropouts/comment-page-1/#comment-62330</link>
		<dc:creator>Lib Lover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1151#comment-62330</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have been both a library paraprofessional, as well as an MLIS graduate librarian.  Since I have been on both sides of the fence I can honestly say, based on my own experience, that I did not know what I did not know until I knew it. The MLIS put me on the path to knowing much more.  There is a place for both in today’s library. However, the key to success in both positions is continual education and a willingness to work for the cause.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been both a library paraprofessional, as well as an MLIS graduate librarian.  Since I have been on both sides of the fence I can honestly say, based on my own experience, that I did not know what I did not know until I knew it. The MLIS put me on the path to knowing much more.  There is a place for both in today’s library. However, the key to success in both positions is continual education and a willingness to work for the cause.</p>
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		<title>By: DeeDeeLemon</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/11/14/library-science-majors-as-unemployed-as-high-school-dropouts/comment-page-1/#comment-58919</link>
		<dc:creator>DeeDeeLemon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 03:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1151#comment-58919</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Spencer has it right.  Grad school was an utter waste of time and money.  That&#039;s not &quot;rating my ability as a grad student&quot; - it&#039;s a comment on the poor instruction (I had a teacher who spent nearly the entire semester recounting his time as President of ALA; an Intro to Reference teacher who only taught print reference sources... in 2007; the list goes on and on) and the ridiculous curriculum (how about &quot;Community Informatics&quot; - a course in how communities need computers).  Sure, I learned the library lingo needed; also learned all about the importance of blogging, wikis, and Facebook.  I&#039;m sure I couldn&#039;t have figured those things out without my advanced degree.  I also learned how to complete a group project when most of the group didn&#039;t do their part or dropped out 1/2-way through the semester, or did a different assignment altogether.  And my grad school WAS in the top 20 of programs.  And don&#039;t even get me started on my classmates - most of whom I wouldn&#039;t hire on a bet.  It would make more sense to require professional librarians to have a Bachelor&#039;s degree and make the Master&#039;s a requirement for Directors and original catalogers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spencer has it right.  Grad school was an utter waste of time and money.  That&#8217;s not &#8220;rating my ability as a grad student&#8221; &#8211; it&#8217;s a comment on the poor instruction (I had a teacher who spent nearly the entire semester recounting his time as President of ALA; an Intro to Reference teacher who only taught print reference sources&#8230; in 2007; the list goes on and on) and the ridiculous curriculum (how about &#8220;Community Informatics&#8221; &#8211; a course in how communities need computers).  Sure, I learned the library lingo needed; also learned all about the importance of blogging, wikis, and Facebook.  I&#8217;m sure I couldn&#8217;t have figured those things out without my advanced degree.  I also learned how to complete a group project when most of the group didn&#8217;t do their part or dropped out 1/2-way through the semester, or did a different assignment altogether.  And my grad school WAS in the top 20 of programs.  And don&#8217;t even get me started on my classmates &#8211; most of whom I wouldn&#8217;t hire on a bet.  It would make more sense to require professional librarians to have a Bachelor&#8217;s degree and make the Master&#8217;s a requirement for Directors and original catalogers.</p>
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		<title>By: Elena</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/11/14/library-science-majors-as-unemployed-as-high-school-dropouts/comment-page-1/#comment-58876</link>
		<dc:creator>Elena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 01:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1151#comment-58876</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The MLIS is just about as useless as the MBA, MFA among others. We are in good company. :P]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The MLIS is just about as useless as the MBA, MFA among others. We are in good company. :P</p>
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		<title>By: Jean Costello</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/11/14/library-science-majors-as-unemployed-as-high-school-dropouts/comment-page-1/#comment-58020</link>
		<dc:creator>Jean Costello</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2011 14:58:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1151#comment-58020</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[TechServing - I think the phrase &quot;the disconnect between what the average person knows about information seeking, and what a librarian knows&quot; is a real pearl.

I have a recent college degree and am an experienced tech professional. My current job involves working with leading companies that create knowledge, design search tools into their content and optimize both for discoverability through Google, FB, etc. Though the moniker &quot;info expert&quot; might reasonably be applied to me, I&#039;m in awe of sharp people in their 20s-30s who seemlessly interact with information and the world. 

In my case, the divide has nothing to do with knowing the tools -- I help build &#039;em for heaven&#039;s sake. It&#039;s about thought patterns &amp; expectations. Growing up in an era when information was organized hierarchically, in silos and behind gates has trained me to think in terms of ontoligical containers. It has also engendered an expectation that I must &quot;go to&quot; or &quot;find&quot; information. Adults 20-30 years youngers don&#039;t seem to share this orientation. Theirs seems to be that information is an intimate part of their existence. They take it in as naturally as the air they breathe or get it as effortlessly as any object that has become commonly available, like water from a tap. Given these expectations and this facility, why would my way (which is a bit constrained and labored) be attractive to them?

What distinguishes my output from the output of intelligent, savvy younger people is that I&#039;m better at assessing the veracity of information to build knowledge or product. I (generally) am quicker to spot artifice or contaminants such as the influence of money, ideology or institutional culture. They simply haven&#039;t lived long enough to see where the information they compile will take them and hone their authentication skills.

Librarianship, I believe, is still hanging its hat on organizing and finding information. Perhaps a more durable value-add might lie in helping our society to maintain and assess the veracity of the information it produces.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TechServing &#8211; I think the phrase &#8220;the disconnect between what the average person knows about information seeking, and what a librarian knows&#8221; is a real pearl.</p>
<p>I have a recent college degree and am an experienced tech professional. My current job involves working with leading companies that create knowledge, design search tools into their content and optimize both for discoverability through Google, FB, etc. Though the moniker &#8220;info expert&#8221; might reasonably be applied to me, I&#8217;m in awe of sharp people in their 20s-30s who seemlessly interact with information and the world. </p>
<p>In my case, the divide has nothing to do with knowing the tools &#8212; I help build &#8216;em for heaven&#8217;s sake. It&#8217;s about thought patterns &amp; expectations. Growing up in an era when information was organized hierarchically, in silos and behind gates has trained me to think in terms of ontoligical containers. It has also engendered an expectation that I must &#8220;go to&#8221; or &#8220;find&#8221; information. Adults 20-30 years youngers don&#8217;t seem to share this orientation. Theirs seems to be that information is an intimate part of their existence. They take it in as naturally as the air they breathe or get it as effortlessly as any object that has become commonly available, like water from a tap. Given these expectations and this facility, why would my way (which is a bit constrained and labored) be attractive to them?</p>
<p>What distinguishes my output from the output of intelligent, savvy younger people is that I&#8217;m better at assessing the veracity of information to build knowledge or product. I (generally) am quicker to spot artifice or contaminants such as the influence of money, ideology or institutional culture. They simply haven&#8217;t lived long enough to see where the information they compile will take them and hone their authentication skills.</p>
<p>Librarianship, I believe, is still hanging its hat on organizing and finding information. Perhaps a more durable value-add might lie in helping our society to maintain and assess the veracity of the information it produces.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2011/11/14/library-science-majors-as-unemployed-as-high-school-dropouts/comment-page-1/#comment-57578</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1151#comment-57578</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ 9:53 Have you heard of the law school scam blogs?  There are a number of these blogs written by law grads who would laugh about what you are saying about law school. Accountants are being replaced by machines and cheap overseas work, as are lawyers. The technology shift is going on in virtually every field.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ 9:53 Have you heard of the law school scam blogs?  There are a number of these blogs written by law grads who would laugh about what you are saying about law school. Accountants are being replaced by machines and cheap overseas work, as are lawyers. The technology shift is going on in virtually every field.</p>
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