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	<title>Comments on: We Don&#8217;t Need No Stinkin&#8217; Badges</title>
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	<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2012/12/03/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-badges/</link>
	<description>Whatever It Is, I&#039;m Against It</description>
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		<title>By: Bonegirl06</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2012/12/03/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-badges/comment-page-1/#comment-254768</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonegirl06</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 15:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1686#comment-254768</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Are you really saying that soldiers do not wear the uniform by choice?  Last I looked, everyone in the army wore a uniform, from the generals to the privates.  Though the first half of your post was legitimate, the second half descended into elitist snobbery and a general insult to more than half the working population.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you really saying that soldiers do not wear the uniform by choice?  Last I looked, everyone in the army wore a uniform, from the generals to the privates.  Though the first half of your post was legitimate, the second half descended into elitist snobbery and a general insult to more than half the working population.</p>
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		<title>By: mildred</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2012/12/03/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-badges/comment-page-1/#comment-226612</link>
		<dc:creator>mildred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2012 06:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1686#comment-226612</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Badges okay. T shirts are unprofessional unless for a special event...like help we want you to like us so pass the millage please!!!
Apprehensive patrons...how did they make it through the door, all cowering in fear ... books, books, circling them, calling out,...runnnnnnnn]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Badges okay. T shirts are unprofessional unless for a special event&#8230;like help we want you to like us so pass the millage please!!!<br />
Apprehensive patrons&#8230;how did they make it through the door, all cowering in fear &#8230; books, books, circling them, calling out,&#8230;runnnnnnnn</p>
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		<title>By: britmys</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2012/12/03/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-badges/comment-page-1/#comment-221087</link>
		<dc:creator>britmys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 23:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1686#comment-221087</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In order to obtain my MLS, in addition to completion of the required 36 hours of advanced study, I had to pass a &quot;Capstone&quot; examination, which entailed the writing of three essays over a 7-day period (basically this meant three research papers).  I thought that was rather rigorous and was certainly a test of my capabilities and my understanding of the profession.  

In addition, I don&#039;t know about other libraries, but our public library requires us to pursue continuing education and obtain education credits, in addition to attending professional conferences to keep current with library trends and continue our professional development.  These are all requirements for satisfactory yearly evaluations which are a requirement for our employment. 

I do not know of another profession whose members are evaluated yearly for an assessment of their professional development.  I think that one of the reasons Wikipedia (and the public perception) does not see us as professionals is mostly that problem of perception, which we have not been very successful in changing.

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation recently surveyed members of the library profession to see what we thought we were the most important areas with which we needed their help.  Unlike a lot of people, I have never seen Bill Gates as a pariah, for without the Foundation&#039;s help I do not think that public libraries would have the excellent computer facilities with which we are now associated.  Ask people if they know where to go to access a computer if they do not have theirs with them or their printer is on the blink or where to find a Wifi hotspot, and most now know to head to their local public library. 

In answering the survey question, I stressed that our greatest need is more effective PR to educate the public about the role of librarians and libraries in their communities.  I feel that if we are to be viewed more universally as professionals, but more importantly, to continue to evolve and be relevant in today&#039;s Google nation, it is imperative that this be one of our first priorities.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In order to obtain my MLS, in addition to completion of the required 36 hours of advanced study, I had to pass a &#8220;Capstone&#8221; examination, which entailed the writing of three essays over a 7-day period (basically this meant three research papers).  I thought that was rather rigorous and was certainly a test of my capabilities and my understanding of the profession.  </p>
<p>In addition, I don&#8217;t know about other libraries, but our public library requires us to pursue continuing education and obtain education credits, in addition to attending professional conferences to keep current with library trends and continue our professional development.  These are all requirements for satisfactory yearly evaluations which are a requirement for our employment. </p>
<p>I do not know of another profession whose members are evaluated yearly for an assessment of their professional development.  I think that one of the reasons Wikipedia (and the public perception) does not see us as professionals is mostly that problem of perception, which we have not been very successful in changing.</p>
<p>The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation recently surveyed members of the library profession to see what we thought we were the most important areas with which we needed their help.  Unlike a lot of people, I have never seen Bill Gates as a pariah, for without the Foundation&#8217;s help I do not think that public libraries would have the excellent computer facilities with which we are now associated.  Ask people if they know where to go to access a computer if they do not have theirs with them or their printer is on the blink or where to find a Wifi hotspot, and most now know to head to their local public library. </p>
<p>In answering the survey question, I stressed that our greatest need is more effective PR to educate the public about the role of librarians and libraries in their communities.  I feel that if we are to be viewed more universally as professionals, but more importantly, to continue to evolve and be relevant in today&#8217;s Google nation, it is imperative that this be one of our first priorities.</p>
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		<title>By: Spekkio</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2012/12/03/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-badges/comment-page-1/#comment-221058</link>
		<dc:creator>Spekkio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1686#comment-221058</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[1. If doctors and nurses have to wear name tags / badges, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s beneath librarians to do so.

2. This once again makes me question whether librarianship is a profession at all. There&#039;s no licensing. There are no certifications. There are no tests. There is no internship or residency requirement. Membership in our professional organization is not actually required to be in the profession. People without the post-secondary education required (MLIS) are still allowed to do the work that degree-holders do (or used to do, anyway). Much of the job has been automated, and it&#039;s only going to be more so in the future. 

And is there any question that librarianship is not on par in stature with professions like medicine (doctor, nurse), law (lawyer, barrister, advocate), etc.? Hell, Wikipedia (yeah, yeah, caveat wiki) doesn&#039;t even list librarian in its list of professions. Archivist made it, but not librarian.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. If doctors and nurses have to wear name tags / badges, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s beneath librarians to do so.</p>
<p>2. This once again makes me question whether librarianship is a profession at all. There&#8217;s no licensing. There are no certifications. There are no tests. There is no internship or residency requirement. Membership in our professional organization is not actually required to be in the profession. People without the post-secondary education required (MLIS) are still allowed to do the work that degree-holders do (or used to do, anyway). Much of the job has been automated, and it&#8217;s only going to be more so in the future. </p>
<p>And is there any question that librarianship is not on par in stature with professions like medicine (doctor, nurse), law (lawyer, barrister, advocate), etc.? Hell, Wikipedia (yeah, yeah, caveat wiki) doesn&#8217;t even list librarian in its list of professions. Archivist made it, but not librarian.</p>
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		<title>By: me</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2012/12/03/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-badges/comment-page-1/#comment-220587</link>
		<dc:creator>me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2012 23:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1686#comment-220587</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m glad you said that Ben! Those are also customer services professions! You know the difference? They aren&#039;t so insecure in their professional status that if you make that connection they don&#039;t immediately lose their minds!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad you said that Ben! Those are also customer services professions! You know the difference? They aren&#8217;t so insecure in their professional status that if you make that connection they don&#8217;t immediately lose their minds!</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2012/12/03/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-badges/comment-page-1/#comment-220503</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2012 19:33:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1686#comment-220503</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@me - Sounds like you define everything as &quot;customer service.&quot; I guess you could say doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. are all in customer service since every profession has it&#039;s &quot;customer.&quot; Or wait, maybe it&#039;s because librarians are not considered professionals as a few here insist on maintaining. If they had their way we could just get rid of librarians and put in what, non-librarian specialists (with training of course, whatever this would be - not librarian training or you might have to call it a profession again - yikes)to do our jobs, or maybe robots.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@me &#8211; Sounds like you define everything as &#8220;customer service.&#8221; I guess you could say doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. are all in customer service since every profession has it&#8217;s &#8220;customer.&#8221; Or wait, maybe it&#8217;s because librarians are not considered professionals as a few here insist on maintaining. If they had their way we could just get rid of librarians and put in what, non-librarian specialists (with training of course, whatever this would be &#8211; not librarian training or you might have to call it a profession again &#8211; yikes)to do our jobs, or maybe robots.</p>
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		<title>By: me</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2012/12/03/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-badges/comment-page-1/#comment-220485</link>
		<dc:creator>me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2012 18:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1686#comment-220485</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;teaching, consulting, preservation, outreach, (increasingly) network/systems&quot;

Three out of the five things you listed are directly related to customer service. You could make an argument that preservation (Who are we preserving things for? That&#039;s right, patrons!), and networks (For patrons to have access to our resources, public computers, websites, etc.) are also customer service related. You are in the customer service field. Get over it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;teaching, consulting, preservation, outreach, (increasingly) network/systems&#8221;</p>
<p>Three out of the five things you listed are directly related to customer service. You could make an argument that preservation (Who are we preserving things for? That&#8217;s right, patrons!), and networks (For patrons to have access to our resources, public computers, websites, etc.) are also customer service related. You are in the customer service field. Get over it.</p>
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		<title>By: Cynthia</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2012/12/03/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-badges/comment-page-1/#comment-220483</link>
		<dc:creator>Cynthia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2012 18:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1686#comment-220483</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m late to the party but must chime in:  

Badges are fine, but why have my picture on it--my head is right there for all to see.  The picture on mine is actually worse than from DMV.  I am glad it breaks regularly.

If you have big boobs, they get caught on the desk and I nearly hang myself when I get up.  Quickly they tear and need to be replaced.  Bottom line--not designed for women with a chest...odd for a female dominated industry.

If I have to pin it on my chest--well let&#039;s just say I don&#039;t need to provide a reason for icky people to look at my chest, not to mention I don&#039;t want to ruin my clothes with a pin.  A magnet strong enough to hold it in place only works on sturdy fabrics and is cold against my skin.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m late to the party but must chime in:  </p>
<p>Badges are fine, but why have my picture on it&#8211;my head is right there for all to see.  The picture on mine is actually worse than from DMV.  I am glad it breaks regularly.</p>
<p>If you have big boobs, they get caught on the desk and I nearly hang myself when I get up.  Quickly they tear and need to be replaced.  Bottom line&#8211;not designed for women with a chest&#8230;odd for a female dominated industry.</p>
<p>If I have to pin it on my chest&#8211;well let&#8217;s just say I don&#8217;t need to provide a reason for icky people to look at my chest, not to mention I don&#8217;t want to ruin my clothes with a pin.  A magnet strong enough to hold it in place only works on sturdy fabrics and is cold against my skin.</p>
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		<title>By: britmys</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2012/12/03/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-badges/comment-page-1/#comment-219487</link>
		<dc:creator>britmys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 22:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1686#comment-219487</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This has been an eye-opening discussion of our very divergent views of our profession. It has certainly ranged far beyond the initial topic of whether or not we wear badges or other means of identification.

I agree that we have not been properly recognized as highly trained professionals, and for the most part, we are not paid as such.  

I recently saw a piece on msn.com concerning jobs which paid a median salary of $55,000, and librarians were included.  I sent an email to my colleagues with the subject line of &quot;I Wish!&quot; and the following message, &quot;I saw this article on my laptop home page (msn.com) last week; and I was highly amused, deeply upset, and scared that our patrons might see it and think it was true for us (all those emotions at the same time).&quot;  I got back some tales of what our patrons think we make.

Here in Texas we are lucky if we are paid 80% of that. Several years ago when our city did a wage survey, we had to provide documentation of what our duties entailed.  It was only after the completion of that survey that our salaries were raised to that 80% level.

I certainly agree with David that I would not trust the average librarian to build our website.  Our library staff is composed of six librarians who have specialized areas in which they function well; however, they are versatile enough that those areas could be broadened if the need arises.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has been an eye-opening discussion of our very divergent views of our profession. It has certainly ranged far beyond the initial topic of whether or not we wear badges or other means of identification.</p>
<p>I agree that we have not been properly recognized as highly trained professionals, and for the most part, we are not paid as such.  </p>
<p>I recently saw a piece on msn.com concerning jobs which paid a median salary of $55,000, and librarians were included.  I sent an email to my colleagues with the subject line of &#8220;I Wish!&#8221; and the following message, &#8220;I saw this article on my laptop home page (msn.com) last week; and I was highly amused, deeply upset, and scared that our patrons might see it and think it was true for us (all those emotions at the same time).&#8221;  I got back some tales of what our patrons think we make.</p>
<p>Here in Texas we are lucky if we are paid 80% of that. Several years ago when our city did a wage survey, we had to provide documentation of what our duties entailed.  It was only after the completion of that survey that our salaries were raised to that 80% level.</p>
<p>I certainly agree with David that I would not trust the average librarian to build our website.  Our library staff is composed of six librarians who have specialized areas in which they function well; however, they are versatile enough that those areas could be broadened if the need arises.</p>
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		<title>By: bflolibrarian</title>
		<link>http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/2012/12/03/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-badges/comment-page-1/#comment-219481</link>
		<dc:creator>bflolibrarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 22:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/annoyedlibrarian/?p=1686#comment-219481</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@David -I think you MUST demand a broad vision and at least some knowledge of many areas to be a good public librarian. I would agree that one person is usually not going to be an expert in every area and not all librarians are great web designers, programmers or whatever specialty you want to choose, though I know many who are more than capable of creating and training others in doing this type of work. We actually have librarian trainers on that do just that: get people started using new programs and technologies.  Further, on top of having the broad view may of us DO specialize in certain areas, but then you would probably complain and say that we are not really librarians, just REAL professional technology or customer service specialists. 

The REAL professionals that you speak of are often hard-pressed to handle the diversity of skills that a librarian does. The technology, teaching and customer service people you call professional, but not librarians who can consolidate these skills and make sure that whatever the problem is that needs solving gets the right solutions applied to it, whether or not they actually do all hands on the work involved.  We connect people and facilitate in a ways that the REAL professionals often can’t.  And since when is technology and customer service a REAL profession? Please.

I worked in large international law firm doing very specialized securities research. We found over and over again that the few lawyers working in librarian positions simply did not cut it on the research/service or even technical end of things. Librarians, trained in the legal research specialty were much better suited to the work. They combined the subject and database searching expertise required with the broader skills mentioned. Why not apply similar skills to public libraries?

You can have your “professionals” taking over the role of librarians, but you will be missing an important holistic piece in libraries. It’s the one hardest piece to define, but it means knowing how to connect the dots in whatever situation you find yourself in and it is not a skill that everyone has. I do not object, however, to having librarians work with other professionals.  We often make referrals and ask for the help of specialist who have a more narrow focus. It also depends on the library environment one is in. And if you don’t see your librarians as capable of performing at this level, then you have either untrained, demoralized and/or just lousy folks doing the work. 

I, for one, wouldn’t recommend that anyone visit the library without the librarian if they really need help.  Which of your professionals is going to make sure the question is answered, know where to send the person if they can’t answer it, do the outreach and activism that you don’t seem to think can count as professional? No one I guess. Or, I know, you’ll just hire separate professional to do each piece. 

Though I strongly disagree with your assessment that librarianship has no professional value, I do appreciate your provocation to think hard about what it is that creates value in libraries (i.e. librarians).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@David -I think you MUST demand a broad vision and at least some knowledge of many areas to be a good public librarian. I would agree that one person is usually not going to be an expert in every area and not all librarians are great web designers, programmers or whatever specialty you want to choose, though I know many who are more than capable of creating and training others in doing this type of work. We actually have librarian trainers on that do just that: get people started using new programs and technologies.  Further, on top of having the broad view may of us DO specialize in certain areas, but then you would probably complain and say that we are not really librarians, just REAL professional technology or customer service specialists. </p>
<p>The REAL professionals that you speak of are often hard-pressed to handle the diversity of skills that a librarian does. The technology, teaching and customer service people you call professional, but not librarians who can consolidate these skills and make sure that whatever the problem is that needs solving gets the right solutions applied to it, whether or not they actually do all hands on the work involved.  We connect people and facilitate in a ways that the REAL professionals often can’t.  And since when is technology and customer service a REAL profession? Please.</p>
<p>I worked in large international law firm doing very specialized securities research. We found over and over again that the few lawyers working in librarian positions simply did not cut it on the research/service or even technical end of things. Librarians, trained in the legal research specialty were much better suited to the work. They combined the subject and database searching expertise required with the broader skills mentioned. Why not apply similar skills to public libraries?</p>
<p>You can have your “professionals” taking over the role of librarians, but you will be missing an important holistic piece in libraries. It’s the one hardest piece to define, but it means knowing how to connect the dots in whatever situation you find yourself in and it is not a skill that everyone has. I do not object, however, to having librarians work with other professionals.  We often make referrals and ask for the help of specialist who have a more narrow focus. It also depends on the library environment one is in. And if you don’t see your librarians as capable of performing at this level, then you have either untrained, demoralized and/or just lousy folks doing the work. </p>
<p>I, for one, wouldn’t recommend that anyone visit the library without the librarian if they really need help.  Which of your professionals is going to make sure the question is answered, know where to send the person if they can’t answer it, do the outreach and activism that you don’t seem to think can count as professional? No one I guess. Or, I know, you’ll just hire separate professional to do each piece. </p>
<p>Though I strongly disagree with your assessment that librarianship has no professional value, I do appreciate your provocation to think hard about what it is that creates value in libraries (i.e. librarians).</p>
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